Prove Creation ? Prove there is the Living God ? Huh ! The Atheists do it for me... Ro. 1:18-32

[old man joe]

" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. " Ro. 1:18-21

***********************************************************************************************************************

man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable ) this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. " it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...

" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution. he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth. God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him. " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain." Ps 76:10; Ro. 9:17

so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.

it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. " Ps. 76:10

the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock. dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system. the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised. life comes from
the Living God.

let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

[DanielSan]

Post by old man joe
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system

Bearing false witness against your neighbor is a sin.

Also, if that phrase up there isn't a sin against the English language,
I don't know WHAT is!

[raven1]

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 08:34:31 -0400, old man joe <***@home.001>
wrote:

Appears mental.

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. " Ro. 1:18-21
***********************************************************************************************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable ) this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. " it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution. he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth. God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him. " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain." Ps 76:10; Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. " Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock. dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system. the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised. life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

[Mickey]

Post by raven1
Appears mental.

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21
**************************************************************************­*********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.  he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.  dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.  the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

No cursing, but I wonder if you were ever in a
mental institution.

[i***@gmail.com]

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21
***************************************************************************­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.  he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.  dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.  the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, is proof enough
that God is real. Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time. Atheism
requires fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.

[DanielSan]

Post by i***@gmail.com

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. " Ro. 1:18-21
***************************************************************************­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable ) this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. " it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution. he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth. God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him. " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain." Ps 76:10; Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. " Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock. dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system. the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised. life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, is proof enough
that God is real.

Um, no.

Post by i***@gmail.com
Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time.

Also, no.

Post by i***@gmail.com
Atheism
requires fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.

And further no.

You really don't live in reality, do you?

[i***@gmail.com]

Post by DanielSan

Post by i***@gmail.com

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21
***************************************************************************­­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.  he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.  dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.  the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, is proof enough
that God is real.

Um, no.

Post by i***@gmail.com
Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time.

Also, no.

Post by i***@gmail.com
  Atheism
requires  fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.

And further no.
You really don't live in reality, do you?
--
DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226
------------------------------
"The Old Testament is responsible for more atheism, agnosticism,
disbelief-call it what you will-than any book ever written; it has
emptied more churches than all the counterattractions of cinema, motor
bicycle and golf course." -- a.a. milne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Then stop believing in atheism which embraces naturalism and
materialism ! Why wont you ? Has it become too comfortable to
your life and choices ?

[raven1]

Post by i***@gmail.com
Then stop believing in atheism

Atheism is not something to be believed in, it's the default position
until you can demonstrate that any kind of deity exists.

Post by i***@gmail.com
which embraces naturalism and
materialism ! Why wont you ?

Because there's no reason to believe that supernaturalism has any
connection to reality.

Post by i***@gmail.com
Has it become too comfortable to
your life and choices ?

I wouldn't live my life any differently if some kind of god turned out
to exist.

[DanielSan]

Post by i***@gmail.com

Post by DanielSan

Post by i***@gmail.com

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. " Ro. 1:18-21
***************************************************************************­­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable ) this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. " it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution. he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth. God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him. " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain." Ps 76:10; Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. " Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock. dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system. the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised. life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, is proof enough
that God is real.

Um, no.

Post by i***@gmail.com
Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time.

Also, no.

Post by i***@gmail.com
Atheism
requires fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.

And further no.
You really don't live in reality, do you?

Then stop believing in atheism

.....believing in atheism? Sorry, what?

I believe in atheism just as much as I believe in theism....and
gravity...and blueberries....and Uhaul trucks....and everything else
that exists.

Post by i***@gmail.com
which embraces naturalism and
materialism ! Why wont you ?

Do you want me to believe in things that do not have any evidence for
them? Why?

Post by i***@gmail.com
Has it become too comfortable to
your life and choices ?

It has nothing to do with comfort.

[Virgil]

In article

Post by i***@gmail.com

Post by DanielSan
------------------------------
"The Old Testament is responsible for more atheism, agnosticism,
disbelief-call it what you will-than any book ever written; it has
emptied more churches than all the counterattractions of cinema, motor
bicycle and golf course." -- a.a. milne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Then stop believing in atheism

Atheism is merely the state of non-belief in gods.

One can BE an atheist, but there is no belief involved.

[Uncle Vic]

Post by i***@gmail.com
Then stop believing in atheism which embraces naturalism and
materialism !     Why wont you ?     Has it become too comfortable to
your life and choices ?

We (atheists) don't need your crutch to live moral lives.
Unfortunately, you've convinced yourself otherwise, are uneducateable,
and you come to alt.atheism every day to shit on our carpet.

--
Uncle Vic
AA#2011

[Devils Advocaat]

Post by i***@gmail.com

Post by DanielSan

Post by i***@gmail.com

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21
*************************************************************************** ­­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.  he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.  dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.  the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, is proof enough
that God is real.

Um, no.

Post by i***@gmail.com
Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time.

Also, no.

Post by i***@gmail.com
  Atheism
requires  fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.

And further no.
You really don't live in reality, do you?
--
DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226
------------------------------
"The Old Testament is responsible for more atheism, agnosticism,
disbelief-call it what you will-than any book ever written; it has
emptied more churches than all the counterattractions of cinema, motor
bicycle and golf course." -- a.a. milne- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Then stop believing in atheism which embraces naturalism and
materialism !     Why wont you ?     Has it become too comfortable to
your life and choices ?

So atheism embraces materialism does it?

Perhaps you better define what you mean by materialism in this context.

[Ken]

Post by DanielSan

Post by i***@gmail.com
Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time.

Also, no.

Post by i***@gmail.com
  Atheism
requires  fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.

And further no.
You really don't live in reality, do you?
--
DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226

Not even within a lighty ear of reality!

[raven1]

Post by i***@gmail.com

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21
***************************************************************************­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.  he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.  dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.  the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us,

This is not a fact, it is an assertion. Several assertions, actually.

Post by i***@gmail.com
is proof enough
that God is real.

As your assertion is unsupported, it proves nothing.

Post by i***@gmail.com
Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements

You have a curious definition of "elements".

Post by i***@gmail.com
like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time.

No one claims that Mount Rushmore came about by natural processes,
precisely because we don't expect to find carvings of four human faces
on a mountainside in nature. But your analogy fails, because no one
looks at mud, dirt, wind, the sun, or lightning, and says "aha!
Someone must have created this!".

Post by i***@gmail.com
Atheism
requires fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.

Still waiting for you to list those "150+ fine-tuned constants", fool.

[Jimbo]

Post by i***@gmail.com

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21
***************************************************************************­­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.  he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.  dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.  the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity

Prove it.

[nature bats_last]

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21
***************************************************************************­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.  he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.  dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.  the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

The fact that it tooka PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, is proof enough
that God is real.

IlBeBauck, you are SO right! Let the atheists sneer
as they will, it is impossible to deny that it took
a Being to create this wonderful Universe...and
that being is Brahma!

Not a day goes by that I fail to give thanks
to Brahma for this world and this life. And
I thank you too, IlBeBauck for posting that.
May Vishnu preserve you.


Ludwig's own

Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time.   Atheism
requires  fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.

[Virgil]

In article

Post by i***@gmail.com
The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us

That is not a fact at all but merely a non-scientific theory with
absolutely no physical evidence to support it.

NOTE: for a theory to be a scientific theory it must be, at least in
principle, be falsifiable, meaning that there must be some sort of
observable events whose occurrence is prohibited by the theory.

[Uncle Vic]

Post by i***@gmail.com
The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, is proof enough
that God is real.

You haven't shown that a PERSON with a Will gave us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, therefore your
argument is invalid.

Post by i***@gmail.com
Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time.   Atheism
requires  fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.

Now you're just talking stupid.

--
Uncle Vic
AA#2011

[DanielSan]

Post by Uncle Vic

Post by i***@gmail.com
The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, is proof enough
that God is real.

You haven't shown that a PERSON with a Will gave us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, therefore your
argument is invalid.

Post by i***@gmail.com
Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time. Atheism
requires fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.

Now you're just talking stupid.

Now watch as I cause IlBe's head to explode:

Loading Image...

[Jimbo]

Post by Uncle Vic

Post by i***@gmail.com
The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, is proof enough
that God is real.

You haven't shown that a PERSON with a Will gave us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, therefore your
argument is invalid.

I hate to disagree on a point, but the cosmos isn't all that fine
tuned.

[Father Haskell]

Post by i***@gmail.com
The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us,

Tell that to the poor dinosaurs that bought the farm right
after that asteroid smacked into the Yucatan.

[Father Haskell]

Post by i***@gmail.com

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21
***************************************************************************­­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.  he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.  dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.  the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

The fact that it took a PERSON with a Will to give us this incredibly
fine tuned cosmos and super complexity all around us, is proof enough
that God is real. Unless One forces himself to believe something like
the faces on Mt. Rushmore can come about by natural elements like
mud , dirt, winds, sun, a few lightening strikes, and time.   Atheism
requires  fooling oneself to keep God at bay in ones life.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

There are 9 planets in our solar system. Why did your so-called
creator make the habitable zone large enough for only one of them?

A klutz like that is hardly worthy of worship.

[Erwin Moller]

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

I stand trembling in awe and fear.
So if I don't do as you say this deity of yours will trike down upon me
from heaven. Right?
Riiiiiight.

Is treats all your kind has left?
Oh, sorry: and lies. that too of course.

Post by old man joe
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. " Ro. 1:18-21

very inspiring.
Have anything else to say that hasn't been said 2000 years ago?

Post by old man joe
***********************************************************************************************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable ) this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... "

Wrong.
I do not have that conscience, yet, according to your own beliefs, I was
made in His Grand Image.

Post by old man joe
that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. " it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...

oh... there is even more.
What wrong with the good old: "I'll let you burn in agony forever after
if you don't do as I command!"?

Post by old man joe
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.

Catholics are bad too now?
Jeez, it is hard to keep track of you loonies and your factions.
I don't even try anymore.

Post by old man joe
he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth. God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him. " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain." Ps 76:10; Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.

Could you try next time to write a coherent sentence?

I don't know where to begin to comment, a few possibilities:
1) Atheism means a-theism. the 'a' means NOT. So an atheist is a not-theist.
It is incredible we need a word for that, but there you go.
By the way: You are an a-FSMist, since you don't believe in the Flying
Spaghetti Monster.

It is very stupid to come up with all the possible a-XXX there are.
It is much more fruitful to say what people are, instead of saying what
they are not, which is endless.

In short: Atheists don't have a 'believe system'. They *can* have, but
surely most do not.

2) The fact that Georges Lemaître was a Catholic priests is totally
unrelevant. It is his idea that counts. Your are too dense to understand
the difference.

3) Darwin's idea was maybe speculative when first published, it is
established science (in a slightly modified form) now.
The fact that you don't like that, doesn't change it is established
science. It is not speculative.

4) Man did come from a monkey as you probably think. We share common
ancestors. As we do with the ringworm and a fish.
Maybe you should read up a little before posting next time?

5) Furthermore: Your whole above logic is a mess.
Try expressing yourself in shorter and clearer sentences. Maybe you'll
do better then.
If you decide to create monsters of sentences, be sure they at least are
constructed in such a way the reader can understand them.

Post by old man joe
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. " Ps. 76:10

See my above 'one line response' as a proof of your lies.
I am an atheist, and I write more than 1 sentence.

Post by old man joe
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.

Can you please stop that?
It is the Big Bang theory, not the Catholic Big Bang theory.
You snipes and frustration won't change that.

Post by old man joe
dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.

What a strange thing to ask an atheist: To reproduce the work of god....
Don't you ever think about what the words mean you use?

And by the way: 'dead elements' as you call atoms, is what *your* body
is made of.
The fact that these 'stupid' atoms are connected in a certain way is
what makes the system more interesting.
Well, maybe not in your case.

Post by old man joe
the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised. life comes from
the Living God.

You can repeat that mantra until you die, it won't change a thing in the
real world.

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

Atheists only claim they don't believe in God.
You extend that notice to the Big Bang (Catholic or not), evolution, and
a whole shitload of other confused ideas that float around in your head.
I wish you best.

Regards,
Erwin Moller

[i***@gmail.com]

On Aug 27, 8:47 am, Erwin Moller

Post by Erwin Moller

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

I stand trembling in awe and fear.
So if I don't do as you say this deity of yours will trike down upon me
from heaven. Right?
Riiiiiight.
Is treats all your kind has left?
Oh, sorry: and lies. that too of course.

Post by old man joe
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21

very inspiring.
Have anything else to say that hasn't been said 2000 years ago?

Post by old man joe
***************************************************************************­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... "

Wrong.
I do not have that conscience, yet, according to your own beliefs, I was
made in His Grand Image.

Post by old man joe
that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...

oh... there is even more.
What wrong with the good old: "I'll let you burn in agony forever after
if you don't do as I command!"?

Post by old man joe
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.

Catholics are bad too now?
Jeez, it is hard to keep track of you loonies and your factions.
I don't even try anymore.

Post by old man joe
he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.

Could you try next time to write a coherent sentence?
1) Atheism means a-theism. the 'a' means NOT. So an atheist is a not-theist.
It is incredible we need a word for that, but there you go.
By the way: You are an a-FSMist, since you don't believe in the Flying
Spaghetti Monster.
It is very stupid to come up with all the possible a-XXX there are.
It is much more fruitful to say what people are, instead of saying what
they are not, which is endless.
In short: Atheists don't have a 'believe system'. They *can* have, but
surely most do not.
2) The fact that Georges Lemaître was a Catholic priests is totally
unrelevant. It is his idea that counts. Your are too dense to understand
the difference.
3) Darwin's idea was maybe speculative when first published, it is
established science (in a slightly modified form) now.
The fact that you don't like that, doesn't change it is established
science. It is not speculative.
4) Man did come from a monkey as you probably think. We share common
ancestors. As we do with the ringworm and a fish.
Maybe you should read up a little before posting next time?
5) Furthermore: Your whole above logic is a mess.
Try expressing yourself in shorter and clearer sentences. Maybe you'll
do better then.
If you decide to create monsters of sentences, be sure they at least are
constructed in such a way the reader can understand them.

Post by old man joe
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10

See my above 'one line response' as a proof of your lies.
I am an atheist, and I write more than 1 sentence.

Post by old man joe
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.

Can you please stop that?
It is the Big Bang theory, not the Catholic Big Bang theory.
You snipes and frustration won't change that.

Post by old man joe
dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.

What a strange thing to ask an atheist: To reproduce the work of god....
Don't you ever think about what the words mean you use?
And by the way: 'dead elements' as you call atoms, is what *your* body
is made of.
The fact that these 'stupid' atoms are connected in a certain way is
what makes the system more interesting.
Well, maybe not in your case.

Post by old man joe
the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.

You can repeat that mantra until you die, it won't change a thing in the
real world.

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

Atheists only claim they don't believe in God.
You extend that notice to the Big Bang (Catholic or not), evolution, and
a whole shitload of other confused ideas that float around in your  head.
I wish you best.
Regards,
Erwin Moller
--
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
-- C.A.R. Hoare

QUOTE : 'Atheists only claim they don't believe in God.
You extend that notice to the Big Bang (Catholic or not), evolution,
and
a whole shitload of other confused ideas that float around in your
head.
I wish you best'

REPLY: Great, you dont believe in God. , so, what are you going to
substitute a personal theistic Creator with for what we have by way
of all this massive complexity which looks like design/
engineering , smells like it, measures like it, and works like
it ? I mean...you DO have a substitute dont you , or, is it
safer just blowing off a theistic personal Creator and not offering
anything rational ? If youre going to have total confidence in
atheism, then you shouldnt be hesitating to support it like it was
true. Yet, extremely few atheists can. So...I hereby challenge
YOU Erwin to stop giving us the common mantra of 'we just dont believe
in God' and give us a viable substitute .

[raven1]

Post by i***@gmail.com
REPLY: Great, you dont believe in God. , so, what are you going to
substitute a personal theistic Creator with for what we have by way
of all this massive complexity which looks like design/
engineering , smells like it, measures like it,

There you go again, spouting crap that you don't even understand. By
what metric do you measure design/engineering? Be specific.

Post by i***@gmail.com
and works like
it ? I mean...you DO have a substitute dont you , or, is it
safer just blowing off a theistic personal Creator and not offering
anything rational ? If youre going to have total confidence in
atheism, then you shouldnt be hesitating to support it like it was
true. Yet, extremely few atheists can.

Unless you can offer any reason to think that any deities exist, it's
the default position. There's nothing that needs supporting.

Post by i***@gmail.com
So...I hereby challenge
YOU Erwin to stop giving us the common mantra of 'we just dont believe
in God' and give us a viable substitute .

Learn something about science and get back to us. Your ignorance is
too profound to be cured with a Usenet post.

[Erwin Moller]

On Aug 27, 8:47 am, Erwin Moller

Post by Erwin Moller

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

I stand trembling in awe and fear.
So if I don't do as you say this deity of yours will trike down upon me
from heaven. Right?
Riiiiiight.
Is treats all your kind has left?
Oh, sorry: and lies. that too of course.

Post by old man joe
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. " Ro. 1:18-21

very inspiring.
Have anything else to say that hasn't been said 2000 years ago?

Post by old man joe
***************************************************************************­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable ) this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... "

Wrong.
I do not have that conscience, yet, according to your own beliefs, I was
made in His Grand Image.

Post by old man joe
that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. " it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...

oh... there is even more.
What wrong with the good old: "I'll let you burn in agony forever after
if you don't do as I command!"?

Post by old man joe
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.

Catholics are bad too now?
Jeez, it is hard to keep track of you loonies and your factions.
I don't even try anymore.

Post by old man joe
he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth. God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him. " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain." Ps 76:10; Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.

Could you try next time to write a coherent sentence?
1) Atheism means a-theism. the 'a' means NOT. So an atheist is a not-theist.
It is incredible we need a word for that, but there you go.
By the way: You are an a-FSMist, since you don't believe in the Flying
Spaghetti Monster.
It is very stupid to come up with all the possible a-XXX there are.
It is much more fruitful to say what people are, instead of saying what
they are not, which is endless.
In short: Atheists don't have a 'believe system'. They *can* have, but
surely most do not.
2) The fact that Georges Lemaître was a Catholic priests is totally
unrelevant. It is his idea that counts. Your are too dense to understand
the difference.
3) Darwin's idea was maybe speculative when first published, it is
established science (in a slightly modified form) now.
The fact that you don't like that, doesn't change it is established
science. It is not speculative.
4) Man did come from a monkey as you probably think. We share common
ancestors. As we do with the ringworm and a fish.
Maybe you should read up a little before posting next time?
5) Furthermore: Your whole above logic is a mess.
Try expressing yourself in shorter and clearer sentences. Maybe you'll
do better then.
If you decide to create monsters of sentences, be sure they at least are
constructed in such a way the reader can understand them.

Post by old man joe
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. " Ps. 76:10

See my above 'one line response' as a proof of your lies.
I am an atheist, and I write more than 1 sentence.

Post by old man joe
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.

Can you please stop that?
It is the Big Bang theory, not the Catholic Big Bang theory.
You snipes and frustration won't change that.

Post by old man joe
dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.

What a strange thing to ask an atheist: To reproduce the work of god....
Don't you ever think about what the words mean you use?
And by the way: 'dead elements' as you call atoms, is what *your* body
is made of.
The fact that these 'stupid' atoms are connected in a certain way is
what makes the system more interesting.
Well, maybe not in your case.

Post by old man joe
the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised. life comes from
the Living God.

You can repeat that mantra until you die, it won't change a thing in the
real world.

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

Atheists only claim they don't believe in God.
You extend that notice to the Big Bang (Catholic or not), evolution, and
a whole shitload of other confused ideas that float around in your head.
I wish you best.
Regards,
Erwin Moller
--
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
-- C.A.R. Hoare

QUOTE : 'Atheists only claim they don't believe in God.
You extend that notice to the Big Bang (Catholic or not), evolution, and
a whole shitload of other confused ideas that float around in your
head.
I wish you best'
REPLY: Great, you dont believe in God. , so, what are you going to
substitute a personal theistic Creator with

I am not planning at all to substitute a "personal theistic Creator"
with anything.

That questions sounds as alien to me as: "Please tell me, Erwin, what
are you going to substitute Thor with?".

I would answer the same: I have no plans to substitute Thor.

for what we have by way
of all this massive complexity which looks like design/
engineering , smells like it, measures like it, and works like
it ?

We look for natural explanations of course.
If we find them (as with evolution), we study them better.
If we don't find them (like the origins of the universe), we are in bad
luck and can *hope* someday a satisfying answer is found.

So much is unknown, so much to learn. Pointing to God is just lazy, and
answers nothing, so the questions stills remains: Where did complexity
come from? What are the origins of the universe? etc.

I mean...you DO have a substitute dont you , or, is it
safer just blowing off a theistic personal Creator and not offering
anything rational ?

A substitute for WHAT?

I don't think my personal wishes have a big influence on how the
universe works.

If youre going to have total confidence in
atheism, then you shouldnt be hesitating to support it like it was
true.

That I do.

But it is not that I *believe* in atheism.
I simply don't see any convincing evidence for a deity.

I just told 'Old Man Joe' (he really never responds, you do a lot better
I must admit) that he is an a-FSMist.
You are too, IllBeBauck: You are a a-FSMist, since you don't believe in
the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Now, if I ask you: How do you substitute that FSM in your a-FSM worldview?
Do me a favor and think about it seriously.
How do you substitute that FSM in your a-FSM worldview?

"A stupid question" you must think now.

Do you understand my problem with your question now?

I don't have to substitute God. I think God is a manmade fairytale, to
cope with all kinds of things/pain (dead, giving life goals, missing
loved ones, etc), not fact.

Yet, extremely few atheists can. So...I hereby challenge
YOU Erwin to stop giving us the common mantra of 'we just dont believe
in God' and give us a viable substitute .

I think I answered that clearly above.
If not, please come again. :-)

Regards,
Erwin Moller

[DanielSan]

Post by i***@gmail.com
REPLY: Great, you dont believe in God.

Yes. That's the definition of atheism. Finally someone gets it.

Post by i***@gmail.com
, so, what are you going to
substitute a personal theistic Creator with for what we have by way
of all this massive complexity which looks like design/
engineering , smells like it, measures like it, and works like
it ?

Sorry, but the universe doesn't look, smell, measured or works like design.

If you define "design" as having forethought by an intelligence, that is...

Post by i***@gmail.com
I mean...you DO have a substitute dont you , or, is it
safer just blowing off a theistic personal Creator and not offering
anything rational ?

Is what you're asking how complexity can come from randomness?

Post by i***@gmail.com
If youre going to have total confidence in
atheism, then you shouldnt be hesitating to support it like it was
true. Yet, extremely few atheists can. So...I hereby challenge
YOU Erwin to stop giving us the common mantra of 'we just dont believe
in God' and give us a viable substitute .

Why should a substitute be required?

[Conan the bacterium]

Post by i***@gmail.com
On Aug 27, 8:47 am, Erwin Moller

Post by Erwin Moller

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

I stand trembling in awe and fear.
So if I don't do as you say this deity of yours will trike down upon me
from heaven. Right?
Riiiiiight.
Is treats all your kind has left?
Oh, sorry: and lies. that too of course.

Post by old man joe
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21

very inspiring.
Have anything else to say that hasn't been said 2000 years ago?

Post by old man joe
***************************************************************************­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... "

Wrong.
I do not have that conscience, yet, according to your own beliefs, I was
made in His Grand Image.

Post by old man joe
that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...

oh... there is even more.
What wrong with the good old: "I'll let you burn in agony forever after
if you don't do as I command!"?

Post by old man joe
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.

Catholics are bad too now?
Jeez, it is hard to keep track of you loonies and your factions.
I don't even try anymore.

Post by old man joe
he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.

Could you try next time to write a coherent sentence?
1) Atheism means a-theism. the 'a' means NOT. So an atheist is a not-theist.
It is incredible we need a word for that, but there you go.
By the way: You are an a-FSMist, since you don't believe in the Flying
Spaghetti Monster.
It is very stupid to come up with all the possible a-XXX there are.
It is much more fruitful to say what people are, instead of saying what
they are not, which is endless.
In short: Atheists don't have a 'believe system'. They *can* have, but
surely most do not.
2) The fact that Georges Lemaître was a Catholic priests is totally
unrelevant. It is his idea that counts. Your are too dense to understand
the difference.
3) Darwin's idea was maybe speculative when first published, it is
established science (in a slightly modified form) now.
The fact that you don't like that, doesn't change it is established
science. It is not speculative.
4) Man did come from a monkey as you probably think. We share common
ancestors. As we do with the ringworm and a fish.
Maybe you should read up a little before posting next time?
5) Furthermore: Your whole above logic is a mess.
Try expressing yourself in shorter and clearer sentences. Maybe you'll
do better then.
If you decide to create monsters of sentences, be sure they at least are
constructed in such a way the reader can understand them.

Post by old man joe
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10

See my above 'one line response' as a proof of your lies.
I am an atheist, and I write more than 1 sentence.

Post by old man joe
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.

Can you please stop that?
It is the Big Bang theory, not the Catholic Big Bang theory.
You snipes and frustration won't change that.

Post by old man joe
dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.

What a strange thing to ask an atheist: To reproduce the work of god....
Don't you ever think about what the words mean you use?
And by the way: 'dead elements' as you call atoms, is what *your* body
is made of.
The fact that these 'stupid' atoms are connected in a certain way is
what makes the system more interesting.
Well, maybe not in your case.

Post by old man joe
the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.

You can repeat that mantra until you die, it won't change a thing in the
real world.

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

Atheists only claim they don't believe in God.
You extend that notice to the Big Bang (Catholic or not), evolution, and
a whole shitload of other confused ideas that float around in your  head.
I wish you best.
Regards,
Erwin Moller
--
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
-- C.A.R. Hoare

QUOTE :  'Atheists only claim they don't believe in God.
You extend that notice to the Big Bang (Catholic or not), evolution, and
a whole shitload of other confused ideas that float around in your
head.
I wish you best'
REPLY:  Great, you dont believe in God. , so,  what are you going to
substitute a personal theistic Creator with  for what we have by way
of  all this massive complexity  which looks like design/
engineering  ,  smells like it,   measures like it,   and works like
it ?      I mean...you DO  have a substitute dont you , or,  is it
safer just blowing off a theistic personal Creator   and not offering
anything rational ?    If youre going to have total confidence in
atheism, then  you shouldnt be hesitating to support it like it was
true.    Yet,  extremely few atheists can.   So...I hereby challenge
YOU Erwin to stop giving us the common mantra of 'we just dont believe
in God'   and  give us a viable substitute  .

Is it just me, or is Davey starting to go all LIvvy on us?


conan

[archie dux]

Post by i***@gmail.com
On Aug 27, 8:47 am, Erwin Moller
REPLY:  Great, you dont believe in God. , so,  what are you going to
substitute a personal theistic Creator with  for what we have by way
of  all this massive complexity  which looks like design/
engineering  ,  smells like it,   measures like it,   and works like
it ?      I mean...you DO  have a substitute dont you , or,  is it
safer just blowing off a theistic personal Creator   and not offering
anything rational ?    If youre going to have total confidence in
atheism, then  you shouldnt be hesitating to support it like it was
true.    Yet,  extremely few atheists can.   So...I hereby challenge
YOU Erwin to stop giving us the common mantra of 'we just dont believe
in God'   and  give us a viable substitute  .

OK, that DOES it. Sorry, but I CANNOT take this any
longer. It's probably not Davey's fault, perhaps he
lives in a region that imposes an impossibly high
tariff on apostrophes. Or maybe the shortage
of apostrophes is more global -- perhaps the
wildfires in Russia have substantially reduced
the annual apostrophe crop. Or maybe it's something
else -- in any case, Davey obviously goes to bed
every night without even a substainance level
of apostrophes.

For that reason, I'm passing the `alt.atheism' hat.
If you have any apostrophes around, perhaps in
a box in the garage "in case I need them someday",
please PLEASE donate them now. Give til it hurts, people.

Here, here's my seed contribution.


' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '
' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '
' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '
' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '
' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '


archie

[Colanth]

Post by i***@gmail.com
QUOTE : 'Atheists only claim they don't believe in God.
You extend that notice to the Big Bang (Catholic or not), evolution, and
a whole shitload of other confused ideas that float around in your head.
I wish you best'
REPLY: Great, you dont believe in God. , so, what are you going to
substitute

Nothing. Atheists are those who don't need sky daddies.

Post by i***@gmail.com
a personal theistic Creator with for what we have by way
of all this massive complexity which looks like design

As compared to that undesigned universe you're using for comparison?

Oh.

Get back to us when you *do* know what you're talking about.

[Erwin Moller]

Post by Colanth

Post by i***@gmail.com
QUOTE : 'Atheists only claim they don't believe in God.
You extend that notice to the Big Bang (Catholic or not), evolution, and
a whole shitload of other confused ideas that float around in your head.
I wish you best'
REPLY: Great, you dont believe in God. , so, what are you going to
substitute

Nothing. Atheists are those who don't need sky daddies.

Post by i***@gmail.com
a personal theistic Creator with for what we have by way
of all this massive complexity which looks like design

As compared to that undesigned universe you're using for comparison?
Oh.
Get back to us when you *do* know what you're talking about.

It's is not, as most of us think, that IllBeBauck is a total coward, it
is simply somebody always ends up telling him to come back when he
figured out what he is talking about.
It is exactly these kind of replies that make IllBeBauck leave all
discussion/threads. ;-)

Regards,
Erwin Moller

[Virgil]

In article

Post by i***@gmail.com
QUOTE : 'Atheists only claim they don't believe in God.
You extend that notice to the Big Bang (Catholic or not), evolution, and
a whole shitload of other confused ideas that float around in your
head.
I wish you best'
REPLY: Great, you dont believe in God. , so, what are you going to
substitute a personal theistic Creator with for what we have by way
of all this massive complexity which looks like design/
engineering , smells like it, measures like it, and works like
it ?

If there is a creator god, we atheists would credit him/her/it with
enough intelligence to have created a world that will produce what
he/she/it will without continuous tweaking.
I.e., will have created nature to do it without any further tweaking.

You creationists fail on two fronts, you reject science and your opinion
of your own God is extremely disrespectful.

[Mike Franklin]

Post by i***@gmail.com
REPLY:  Great, you dont believe in God. , so,  what are you going to
substitute a personal theistic Creator with  for what we have by way
of  all this massive complexity  which looks like design/
engineering  ,  smells like it,   measures like it,   and works like
it ?

Where we have knowledge, I will substitute with that. Where we don't,
I will admit I don't know. What I won't do is use magic as an
explanation for natural phenomena, and avoid fooling myself into
believing I have explained anything.

Mike

[Colanth]

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:47:07 +0200, Erwin Moller

Post by Erwin Moller

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

I stand trembling in awe and fear.
So if I don't do as you say this deity of yours will trike down upon me
from heaven. Right?
Riiiiiight.
Is treats all your kind has left?
Oh, sorry: and lies. that too of course.

Left? It's all they've ever had. Right from the dawn of writing. The
first religion threatened those who would not bend over.

[Jimbo]

Blah, blah, blah, nonsense, blah, blah, blah.

And there you go.

[Velociraptor]

... Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey ...

Darwin never said that man came from mankeys.

But you don't really waant to be taken seriously, do you?
________________________________________
velociraptor_nice_reptile @NO_SPAM yahoo.co.uk

[Budikka666]

On Aug 27, 7:34 am, old man joe <***@home.001> wrote:

Funny, but when I removed everything from your message that was
**NOT** supported by science, you left me nothing to respond to. But
please *do* keep posting; we can use the laughs.

Budikka

[Uncle Vic]

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

We're still waiting for this wrath to be "shewn". Just like you're
still waiting for this Jesus character to come down in clouds. Maybe
the bible ain't true, ya think?

--
Uncle Vic
AA#2011

[DanielSan]

Post by Uncle Vic

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

We're still waiting for this wrath to be "shewn". Just like you're
still waiting for this Jesus character to come down in clouds. Maybe
the bible ain't true, ya think?

It's not fair. Thomas (Didymus) the Apostle got the evidence he
needed. Why can't we?

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:26:26 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Vic

Post by Uncle Vic

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

We're still waiting for this wrath to be "shewn". Just like you're
still waiting for this Jesus character to come down in clouds. Maybe
the bible ain't true, ya think?

"Shewn" is actually a legitimate, if old-fashioned spelling.

[Wombat]

Post by Christopher A. Lee
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:26:26 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Vic

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

We're still waiting for this wrath to be "shewn".  Just like you're
still waiting for this Jesus character to come down in clouds.  Maybe
the bible ain't true, ya think?

"Shewn" is actually a legitimate, if old-fashioned spelling.

One of my teachers at school used that spelling, as well as the
archaic writing of the letter 's'.

Wombat

[Steve Knight]

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

Does 'shewed' mean butt fucked?

Dude, no god is going to shew me. No sireee...

(Places hand protectively, looks around..)

No sireee...!

Warlord Steve
BAAWA

[DanielSan]

Post by Steve Knight

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

Does 'shewed' mean butt fucked?
Dude, no god is going to shew me. No sireee...
(Places hand protectively, looks around..)
No sireee...!

Shew God, don't bother me...

;-)

[Desta]

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became
vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "  Ro. 1:18-21
***************************************************************************­********************************************
man is made in the image of God and knows full well he is on bad, bad terms with God as he try's so
desperately to show by God's own Creation that there is no God. ( laughable )  this is because God
put in man a conscience to know for certain God exists... " that which may be known of God is
manifest in them. "  it's from these texts of Holy Scripture that we learn this and we also learn
that...
" God hath shewed it unto him " and he still calls God a liar as he swallows the Catholic Big Bang
idea and Atheist Darwin's idea of Evolution.  he unwittingly becomes a beacon of truth.  God is
Almighty... He's so designed rebellious reprobates that His glory shines through even as they
display their hated of Him.  " Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath
shalt thou restrain."  Ps 76:10;  Ro. 9:17
so while the Atheist's are committed to a belief system of Catholicism's Big Bang idea of a man made
universe from speculative philosophy's and committed to Darwin's idea of speculative philosophy that
man came from a monkey, cursing themselves because of God having already shown to them in their
conscience Creation is God made, their total inability to concoct a tenable line of reasoning
against Creation only goes to show the glory of Creator God all the more.
it's not for nothing that the Atheists make one line responses to these things with cursing the
poster's of Creation being solely the work of the Living God, they are doing exactly as the Living
God so ordered such things... " the wrath of man shall praise thee. "  Ps. 76:10
the Catholic Big Bang simply doesn't produce life any more than life coming out of a rock.  dead
elements do not become alive all by themselves and there isn't a single Atheist on the planet who
can duplicate the work of God with the bag full of words they use in their belief system.  the human
body is not alive by reason of the non-living elements of which it is comprised.  life comes from
the Living God.
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

There is no greater proof for the "living God" than the once and for
all, verifiable demonstration of Christ's divine identity and
authority which "not even death will EVER be able to overcome" (Matt.
16:18). The demo has inaugurated an open season for the first
mysterious, perfect and transfigurative death on the cross producing
unmistakable visions of the immortal Christ and powerful and
sustainable transformations of life (Ibid, 27: 50-56; Acts 2). AMEN.

[Rinaldo of Capadoccia]

Post by Desta
There is no greater proof for the "living God" than the once and for
all, verifiable demonstration of Christ's divine identity and
authority which "not even death will EVER be able to overcome" (Matt.
16:18). The demo has inaugurated an open season for the first
mysterious, perfect and transfigurative death on the cross producing
unmistakable visions of the immortal Christ and powerful and
sustainable transformations of life (Ibid, 27: 50-56; Acts 2). AMEN.

You're drop-dead crackers, aren't you?

[AllSeeing-I]

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".

But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.

Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.

Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.

--
The truth is this way says...

The All Seeing I

[DanielSan]

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".

Which isn't Pascal's Wager.

Post by AllSeeing-I
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.

This assumes that there are only two options.

[tirebiter]

Post by DanielSan

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".

Which isn't Pascal's Wager.

Post by AllSeeing-I
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.

This assumes that there are only two options.

Very true, but even within the very simplistic view that most
christians hold of Pascal's Wager, the problem should appear to them
as more than an either/or choice.

What could possibly benefit someone using this "better to have it and
not need it" choice? If this god is as mean and vicious as every
single christian I've ever met claims it is, and it also has the
omniscient powers they claim it does, then how could this supposed all-
powerful god ever give someone a pass into the mythical heaven for
believing in it for no other reason than to hedge a bet against going
to hell?

Wouldn't this god, as described, demand that people worship it, even
if heaven wasn't an option?

Any time a christian tries to invoke Pascal's Wager, it means they've
already accepted defeat.

---
a.a. #2273

Post by DanielSan
--
DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226
------------------------------
"The Old Testament is responsible for more atheism, agnosticism,
disbelief-call it what you will-than any book ever written; it has
emptied more churches than all the counterattractions of cinema, motor
bicycle and golf course." -- a.a. milne

[Virgil]

In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of
God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life
otherwise.

[AllSeeing-I]

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of
God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life  
otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I love watching the atheist stammer and studier as they try to wiggle
away from the simplicity of the wager.

They will make up all sorts of reasons why the wager is not, exactly
what it is.

It is what it is.

If you like the safe odds, or if believe in things like: "it is better
to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it", --then
pascal's wager will make sense to you.

If you believe one or the other but not both then you are lying to
yourself.

[DanielSan]

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of
God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life
otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I love watching the atheist stammer and studier as they try to wiggle
away from the simplicity of the wager.

I think you mean 'stutter'.

And Pascal's Wager is inherently flawed. Period.

Post by AllSeeing-I
They will make up all sorts of reasons why the wager is not, exactly
what it is.
It is what it is.

And it is flawed.

Post by AllSeeing-I
If you like the safe odds, or if believe in things like: "it is better
to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it", --then
pascal's wager will make sense to you.

But "It's better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have
it" is NOT Pascal's Wager.

[Virgil]

In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of
God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life  
otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I love watching the atheist stammer and studier as they try to wiggle
away from the simplicity of the wager.
They will make up all sorts of reasons why the wager is not, exactly
what it is.
It is what it is.
If you like the safe odds, or if believe in things like: "it is better
to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it", --then
pascal's wager will make sense to you.
If you believe one or the other but not both then you are lying to
yourself.

I was under the apparently mistaken impression that your god was
supposed to know your thoughts and the reasons for your actions, and
would thus be aware that one's "belief" was bought.

[tirebiter]

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of
God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life  
otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I love watching the atheist stammer and studier as they try to wiggle
away from the simplicity of the wager.
They will make up all sorts of reasons why the wager is not, exactly
what it is.
It is what it is.
If you like the safe odds, or if believe in things like: "it is better
to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it", --then
pascal's wager will make sense to you.
If you believe one or the other but not both then you are lying to
yourself.

I was under the apparently mistaken impression that your god was
supposed to know your thoughts and the reasons for your actions, and
would thus be aware that one's "belief" was bought.

The horribly flawed Pascal's Wager really comes down to exactly this.
It requires a god that doesn't care why someone would want to believe
in it, even if it is just to win a bet.

---
a.a. #2273

[Jimbo]

Post by tirebiter

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and
unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known
of
God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life  
otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I love watching the atheist stammer and studier as they try to wiggle
away from the simplicity of the wager.
They will make up all sorts of reasons why the wager is not, exactly
what it is.
It is what it is.
If you like the safe odds, or if believe in things like: "it is better
to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it", --then
pascal's wager will make sense to you.
If you believe one or the other but not both then you are lying to
yourself.

I was under the apparently mistaken impression that your god was
supposed to know your thoughts and the reasons for your actions, and
would thus be aware that one's "belief" was bought.

The horribly flawed Pascal's Wager really comes down to exactly this.
It requires a god that doesn't care why someone would want to believe
in it, even if it is just to win a bet.

It's also flawed as it creates a false dualism. One choice, or
another. In fact, this question is one of many hundreds of choices.
Between non-belief, and belief in one of the 640 or so known
religions, and many more gods being worshipped.

[Free Lunch]

Post by Jimbo

Post by tirebiter

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and
unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known
of
God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life  
otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I love watching the atheist stammer and studier as they try to wiggle
away from the simplicity of the wager.
They will make up all sorts of reasons why the wager is not, exactly
what it is.
It is what it is.
If you like the safe odds, or if believe in things like: "it is better
to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it", --then
pascal's wager will make sense to you.
If you believe one or the other but not both then you are lying to
yourself.

I was under the apparently mistaken impression that your god was
supposed to know your thoughts and the reasons for your actions, and
would thus be aware that one's "belief" was bought.

The horribly flawed Pascal's Wager really comes down to exactly this.
It requires a god that doesn't care why someone would want to believe
in it, even if it is just to win a bet.

It's also flawed as it creates a false dualism. One choice, or
another. In fact, this question is one of many hundreds of choices.
Between non-belief, and belief in one of the 640 or so known
religions, and many more gods being worshipped.

And, of course, there's Homer's Corollary:

"But Marge, what if we chose the wrong religion? Each week we just make
God madder and madder."

[tirebiter]

Post by tirebiter

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and
unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known
of
God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life  
otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I love watching the atheist stammer and studier as they try to wiggle
away from the simplicity of the wager.
They will make up all sorts of reasons why the wager is not, exactly
what it is.
It is what it is.
If you like the safe odds, or if believe in things like: "it is better
to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it", --then
pascal's wager will make sense to you.
If you believe one or the other but not both then you are lying to
yourself.

I was under the apparently mistaken impression that your god was
supposed to know your thoughts and the reasons for your actions, and
would thus be aware that one's "belief" was bought.

The horribly flawed Pascal's Wager really comes down to exactly this.
It requires a god that doesn't care why someone would want to believe
in it, even if it is just to win a bet.

It's also flawed as it creates a false dualism.  One choice, or
another.  In fact, this question is one of many hundreds of choices.
Between non-belief, and belief in one of the 640 or so known
religions, and many more gods being worshipped.

Yes, agreed. My remark was in context with the tunnel vision view that
christians use.

I had an online chat a year or so ago with a christian who couldn't
get past that obstacle. One of the infinite number of alternate
choices I offered was an afterlife, where a god judged every person's
eternal destination, based on how they lived for some number of
seconds, days, years, etc., on earth.

Except it isn't the christian god. It is a god that holds christians
in much higher contempt over everybody else, because they so
mindlessly believed in the wrong god.

Being the mindless and obedient godbot that he was, it was impossible
for him to even conceive of any possibility of a potential god that
wasn't the one he invented in his imagination. I asked him to prove
that his version of afterlife judgement was any more valid than the
one I offered, but of course he couldn't.

---
a.a. #2273

[Velociraptor]

Post by Jimbo

Post by tirebiter

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life  
otherwise.- Hide quoted text -

I love watching the atheist stammer and studier as they try to wiggle
away from the simplicity of the wager.
They will make up all sorts of reasons why the wager is not, exactly
what it is.
It is what it is.
If you like the safe odds, or if believe in things like: "it is better
to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it", --then
pascal's wager will make sense to you.
If you believe one or the other but not both then you are lying to
yourself.

I was under the apparently mistaken impression that your god was
supposed to know your thoughts and the reasons for your actions, and
would thus be aware that one's "belief" was bought.

The horribly flawed Pascal's Wager really comes down to exactly this.
It requires a god that doesn't care why someone would want to believe
in it, even if it is just to win a bet.

It's also flawed as it creates a false dualism. One choice, or
another. In fact, this question is one of many hundreds of choices.
Between non-belief, and belief in one of the 640 or so known
religions, and many more gods being worshipped.

If I died and found there were gods floating around, I would ask to
see a low-church C of E god. Such a god would be far too polite to
send anyone to Hell - unless, possibly, they were extremely nasty -
but he would certainly prefer the honest atheist to a phony who
pretended to believe because of Pascal's wager!
________________________________________
velociraptor_nice_reptile @NO_SPAM yahoo.co.uk

[Erwin Moller]

<snip>

Post by Jimbo

Post by tirebiter

Post by Virgil
I was under the apparently mistaken impression that your god was
supposed to know your thoughts and the reasons for your actions, and
would thus be aware that one's "belief" was bought.

The horribly flawed Pascal's Wager really comes down to exactly this.
It requires a god that doesn't care why someone would want to believe
in it, even if it is just to win a bet.

It's also flawed as it creates a false dualism. One choice, or
another. In fact, this question is one of many hundreds of choices.
Between non-belief, and belief in one of the 640 or so known
religions, and many more gods being worshipped.

Exactly: Nail on the head. :-)
That is the real reason Pascal's Wager is a total joke: false dilemma.
Creationists love logical fallacies, and use them all the time.

By the way: here is a great collection:
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/

Regards,
Erwin Moller

[Velociraptor]

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:00:18 -0700 (PDT), AllSeeing-I

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of
God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life  
otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I love watching the atheist stammer and studier as they try to wiggle
away from the simplicity of the wager.
They will make up all sorts of reasons why the wager is not, exactly
what it is.
It is what it is.
If you like the safe odds, or if believe in things like: "it is better
to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it", --then
pascal's wager will make sense to you.
If you believe one or the other but not both then you are lying to
yourself.

But why should I take your version rather than the version offered by
any other religion that threatens severe saanctions for unbelievers of
that religion?

The answer must be that you have other reasons why you believe in
Christianity. Therefore you could only convince me to accept Pascal's
wager with respect to Christianity if you could convince me that those
reasons were valid.

The most perceptive comment I have seen about Pascal's wager is that
Pascal did not intend it for non believers, rather he aimed it at
believers whose belief was wavering. That makes some sense. There was
a brief period in my life when I figured that there was a tiny chance
that the priests were right; so an hours excruciating boredom every
week when I went to mass made sense because it staved off a possible
eternity in Hell if I stayed away.
________________________________________
velociraptor_nice_reptile @NO_SPAM yahoo.co.uk

[Erwin Moller]

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by Virgil
In article

Post by AllSeeing-I

Post by old man joe
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
unrighteousness of men,
who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of
God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.

[\]

Post by old man joe
let the cursing begin as the Atheist's dodge this basic fact of life.

One way they dodge is by refusing pascals'e wager. I have always found
it facinating that so many atheist reject the principal behind
'pasqual's wager'. Yet in their very own lives they will live by such
phrases as "better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not
have it", or "better to err on the side of caution".
But when it comes to something as potentially damaging as the loss of
one's soul, they reject the principal of erring on the side of
caution. They would rather not have it when they may need it.
Time is running out k00ks. Take pascal's wager. Err on the side of
caution. Have saving-grace when you need it rather then ---to not have
it when you do.
Wake up and smell the evolution in your coffee.
--
The truth is this way says...
The All Seeing I

Pascal's wager is profoundly anti-theist, since anyone who accepts
belief on the basis that it pays off better, would have damned himself
if it turned out there were that sort of a god and wasted his life
otherwise.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I love watching the atheist stammer and studier as they try to wiggle
away from the simplicity of the wager.

Dear confused Madman,

I suspect it was a casual joke by Pascal.
He seemed to have a working brain, and his wager is so obviously stupid,
illogical, and so easily debunked, that I have a hard time imagining
Pascal being serious.

Should I debunk it again for you, or will you rest your case here?

Post by AllSeeing-I
They will make up all sorts of reasons why the wager is not, exactly
what it is.

I wonder who you talked to.
Maybe you discussed it with some particular stupid atheist?
One that could be outsmarted by you?

Try one that has basic skills in logic, and the validity of the wager
evaporates before you finished stating it.

It was debunked a long time ago because it is so easy to spot the mistake.

Post by AllSeeing-I
It is what it is.

Yes, it is what it is: an invalid piece of reasoning.
Only people with no logic skills will buy it's conclusion.

Post by AllSeeing-I
If you like the safe odds, or if believe in things like: "it is better
to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it", --then
pascal's wager will make sense to you.

Are you by any chance so immensely stupid you actually *really* think
Pascal's wager makes sense?
Please say no.

Post by AllSeeing-I
If you believe one or the other but not both then you are lying to
yourself.

That I rather pass on to the more talented: you.

Regards,
Erwin Moller

[ScienceWins]

Post by old man joe
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven

Any evidence for any of these gods? Once you provide that, then you can
start providing evidence that they have "wrath."

Thanks.

---
Does belief in astrology cause insanity? http://www.skeptictank.org/edm.htm