Discussion:
The Big Bangers and Evolutionists remain ignorant to their own science...
(too old to reply)
raven1
2014-09-07 13:01:16 UTC
Permalink
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?

---
raven1
aa # 1096
EAC Vice President (President in charge of vice)
BAAWA Knight
James
2014-09-07 14:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!

Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.

So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?

James
www.jw.org
Post by raven1
---
raven1
aa # 1096
EAC Vice President (President in charge of vice)
BAAWA Knight
Free Lunch
2014-09-07 15:22:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
August Rode
2014-09-07 15:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction.
Ermm... Life is a *complex suite* of self-sustaining biochemical reactions.
Post by Free Lunch
There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
Free Lunch
2014-09-08 00:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by August Rode
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction.
Ermm... Life is a *complex suite* of self-sustaining biochemical reactions.
But of course...
Post by August Rode
Post by Free Lunch
There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
James
2014-09-08 12:24:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
What starts the "reaction"? Can you duplicate it in the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
That no human can duplicate. What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?

James
www.jw.org
Free Lunch
2014-09-08 22:32:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
What starts the "reaction"? Can you duplicate it in the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
That no human can duplicate.
Yet, though almost all of the mechanisms have been duplicated.
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
James
2014-09-09 15:35:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
What starts the "reaction"? Can you duplicate it in the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
That no human can duplicate.
Yet, though almost all of the mechanisms have been duplicated.
If so, then why can't you produce life from non-life in the best
possible environment, the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?

James
www.jw.org
Free Lunch
2014-09-09 23:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
What starts the "reaction"? Can you duplicate it in the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
That no human can duplicate.
Yet, though almost all of the mechanisms have been duplicated.
If so, then why can't you produce life from non-life in the best
possible environment, the lab?
The fact that it has not been done yet is not evidence that it can never
be done. Do you have any idea how much biologists have learned in the
past century and how many questions are still being answered? Do you
care?
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
James
2014-09-10 19:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
What starts the "reaction"? Can you duplicate it in the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
That no human can duplicate.
Yet, though almost all of the mechanisms have been duplicated.
If so, then why can't you produce life from non-life in the best
possible environment, the lab?
The fact that it has not been done yet is not evidence that it can never
be done. Do you have any idea how much biologists have learned in the
past century and how many questions are still being answered? Do you
care?
Yes, there has been near a quantum jump in biological knowledge. (as
well as many others)

Thus if they DO create life from non-life in the lab, it shows it
requires sophisticated and state of the art equipment, as well as a
deep understanding of biological life. In other words, it takes GREAT
INTELLECT to create life from non-life.

Yet sadly, people believe that no mind created the complexities of a
life. Just random forces acting on non-life materials. (I am waiting
for my car to become alive, so I can sit back and enjoy the ride)

James
www.jw.org
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
Free Lunch
2014-09-10 23:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
What starts the "reaction"? Can you duplicate it in the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
That no human can duplicate.
Yet, though almost all of the mechanisms have been duplicated.
If so, then why can't you produce life from non-life in the best
possible environment, the lab?
The fact that it has not been done yet is not evidence that it can never
be done. Do you have any idea how much biologists have learned in the
past century and how many questions are still being answered? Do you
care?
Yes, there has been near a quantum jump in biological knowledge. (as
well as many others)
Thus if they DO create life from non-life in the lab, it shows it
requires sophisticated and state of the art equipment, as well as a
deep understanding of biological life. In other words, it takes GREAT
INTELLECT to create life from non-life.
Yet sadly, people believe that no mind created the complexities of a
life. Just random forces acting on non-life materials. (I am waiting
for my car to become alive, so I can sit back and enjoy the ride)
You want to have it both ways. Too bad, you have it neither way. Your
religious claims are silly and your disdain for science shows how proud
you are of ignorance.
James
2014-09-11 19:17:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
What starts the "reaction"? Can you duplicate it in the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
That no human can duplicate.
Yet, though almost all of the mechanisms have been duplicated.
If so, then why can't you produce life from non-life in the best
possible environment, the lab?
The fact that it has not been done yet is not evidence that it can never
be done. Do you have any idea how much biologists have learned in the
past century and how many questions are still being answered? Do you
care?
Yes, there has been near a quantum jump in biological knowledge. (as
well as many others)
Thus if they DO create life from non-life in the lab, it shows it
requires sophisticated and state of the art equipment, as well as a
deep understanding of biological life. In other words, it takes GREAT
INTELLECT to create life from non-life.
Yet sadly, people believe that no mind created the complexities of a
life. Just random forces acting on non-life materials. (I am waiting
for my car to become alive, so I can sit back and enjoy the ride)
You want to have it both ways. Too bad, you have it neither way. Your
religious claims are silly and your disdain for science shows how proud
you are of ignorance.
Anybody that knows me knows I hold true science with highest regards.
After all, it was God who created all the natural sciences. So who
should know most about them, than Almighty God.

But pseudoscience like macroevolution brings shame to those scientists
who endorse it and teach it. They should know better. And it goes
against the fossil record. The Bible is closer to supporting the
fossil record, than the macroevolution advocates ever were. Even
Darwin admitted that.

James
www.jw.org
Malte Runz
2014-09-11 20:27:13 UTC
Permalink
"James" skrev i meddelelsen news:***@4ax.com...

(snip)
Post by James
Anybody that knows me knows I hold true science with highest regards.
If you could hear yourself through the ears of a scientist, you'd piss your
pants from laughter.
Post by James
After all, it was God who created all the natural sciences. So who
should know most about them, than Almighty God.
Too bad your god is imaginary.
Post by James
But pseudoscience ...
Creationist science is the quintessence of pseudoscience.
Post by James
... like macroevolution brings shame to those scientists
who endorse it and teach it. They should know better. And it goes
against the fossil record. ...
The fossil record supports 'macroeveolution'. That's how scientist got the
idea in the first place.

But since you hold true science with the highest regards, why don't you
supply some true scientific evidence that falsifies the 'macroevolutionary'
part of the ToE?
Post by James
... The Bible is closer to supporting the
fossil record, than the macroevolution advocates ever were.
Again, I recommend that you back up your claims with evidence and not mere
assertions.
Post by James
... Even
Darwin admitted that.
Of course he didn't, but if he had done so, it would mean absolutely nothing
to the ToE anno 2014. Darwin is not an authority anymore.
--
Malte Runz
James
2014-09-12 14:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by James
Anybody that knows me knows I hold true science with highest regards.
If you could hear yourself through the ears of a scientist, you'd piss your
pants from laughter.
The proof is in the pudding.
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
After all, it was God who created all the natural sciences. So who
should know most about them, than Almighty God.
Too bad your god is imaginary.
Fortunately, just because you say it, doesn't make it true.
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
But pseudoscience ...
Creationist science is the quintessence of pseudoscience.
Some are, and some are not. In my case, based on the Bible, I don't
believe the universe was created in 6 literal 24 hour days. I accept
the fact that it could be billions of years old as scientists tell us.
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
... like macroevolution brings shame to those scientists
who endorse it and teach it. They should know better. And it goes
against the fossil record. ...
The fossil record supports 'macroeveolution'. That's how scientist got the
idea in the first place.
But since you hold true science with the highest regards, why don't you
supply some true scientific evidence that falsifies the 'macroevolutionary'
part of the ToE?
Certainly. I'll even quote the founder of that pseudoscience, Darwin
himself.

The Bible shows that life forms were created independently of each
other. In other words, no transitional links. Notice Darwin's comment:

“Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of
such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such
finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious
and serious objection which can be urged against the theory." (The
Origin of Species, by Charles Darwin)

As much work that Darwin did back then, he should have at least
stumbled upon a variety of transitional fossils. HE DIDN'T. And that
bothered him.

Of the billions of life forms that had ever lived, The ground should
be bursting at the seams with transitional fossils, millions of them.
But they are not just there in the fossil record. The small amount
they claim today, in no way, supports the macroevolutionary theory.
They play 'musical bones' with their alleged evidence, to make things
appear to come from one another. And they get absurd; dinosaurs to
birds. Watch out for that T-Robin!

So in review, the Bible says each life form was created independently
of each other, thus no transitional life forms. The alleged fossil
record shows very little transitional life forms. Way too small to
have had it happened that way.
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
... The Bible is closer to supporting the
fossil record, than the macroevolution advocates ever were.
Again, I recommend that you back up your claims with evidence and not mere
assertions.
See above concerning transitional life forms.

Another thing in the fossil record is the abrupt sudden appearance of
all different kinds of life forms:

“Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of
such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such
finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious
and serious objection which can be urged against the theory.

...The abrupt manner in which whole groups of species suddenly appear
in certain formations has been urged by several paleontologists . . .
as a fatal objection to the belief in the transmutation of species.

...There is another and allied difficulty, which is much more serious.
I allude to the manner in which species belonging to several of the
main divisions of the animal kingdom suddenly appear in the lowest
known fossiliferous rocks. . . . The case at present must remain
inexplicable; and may be truly urged as a valid argument against the
[evolutionary] views here entertained.” (The Origin of Species, by
Charles Darwin)

So the Bible shows God created all those life forms apparently within
a short span of time. The fossil records shows multi-life forms
suddenly appearing in the fossil record, thus supporting the Bible's
account over that theory.
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
... Even
Darwin admitted that.
Of course he didn't, but if he had done so, it would mean absolutely nothing
to the ToE anno 2014. Darwin is not an authority anymore.
He never was. But at least he had the courage to face certain facts
that he couldn't explain. Notice:

"15 However, could it not be that, given the existence of life,
different species of living things might progressively evolve into
other species? Well, if that took place, the fossil record of past
ages would show this. But does it? Consider the so-called Cambrian
period. Here fossils of the major groups of invertebrates first appear
together in a spectacular “explosion” of living things. If these
vastly differing groups all exploded into life at the one time, how
could they possibly have evolved from one another? Darwin himself
frankly admitted: “If numerous species . . . have really started into
life at once, the fact would be fatal to the theory of evolution.”
Fatal indeed!—1 Corinthians 3:19, 20.

16 The fossil record reveals that different and very complex life
forms appeared suddenly and fully developed. As one professor of
natural science commented: “Whales, bats, horses, primates, elephants,
hares, squirrels, etc., all are as distinct at their first appearance
as they are now. There is not a trace of a common ancestor, much less
a link with any reptile, the supposed progenitor.” Are there any
fossils of giraffes with necks two thirds or three quarters the
accepted length? No, there are not. The truth of the matter is as
stated at Genesis 1:25: “God proceeded to make the wild beast of the
earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its
kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And
God got to see that it was good.” Yes, very good!" (86W,4/1, pp.
13.14)

Also notice:

“In the 1967 publication, The Fossil Record, . . . jointly sponsored
by the Geological Society of London and the Palaeontological
Association of England . . . some 120 scientists, all specialists,
prepared 30 chapters in a monumental work of over 800 pages to present
the fossil record for plants and animals divided into about 2,500
groups. . . .

“A conclusive generalization drawn from these charts is as follows:
Each major form or kind of plant and animal is shown to have a
separate and distinct history from all the other forms or kinds!!!

“Groups of both plants and animals appear suddenly in the fossil
record. . . . Whales, bats, horses, primates, elephants, hares,
squirrels, etc., all are as distinct at their first appearance as they
are now. There is not a trace of a common ancestor, much less a link
with any reptile, the supposed progenitor. . . ." (quoted from 73
Awake! mag, 10/22, pp. 17)

Do you find fault above with the Geological Society of London and the
Palaeontological Association of England?

James
www.jw.org
Mitchell Holman
2014-09-12 22:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
The fossil record supports 'macroeveolution'. That's how scientist got
the idea in the first place.
But since you hold true science with the highest regards, why don't
you supply some true scientific evidence that falsifies the
'macroevolutionary' part of the ToE?
Certainly. I'll even quote the founder of that pseudoscience, Darwin
himself.
The Bible shows that life forms were created independently of each
other. In other words, no transitional links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils
Post by James
Of the billions of life forms that had ever lived, The ground should
be bursting at the seams with transitional fossils, millions of them.
But they are not just there in the fossil record.
So to sum up your point: If a species
is not in the fossil record then it
never existed. That explains why there
is no such thing as a Olinguito or a
Duck Billed Platypus. No fossil record
of them so they never existed, right?

Sheesh..........
Malte Runz
2014-09-12 23:24:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
(snip)
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
Creationist science is the quintessence of pseudoscience.
Some are, and some are not. In my case, based on the Bible, I don't
believe the universe was created in 6 literal 24 hour days. I accept
the fact that it could be billions of years old as scientists tell us.
Scientist don't say 'it could be'.
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
... like macroevolution brings shame to those scientists
who endorse it and teach it. They should know better. And it goes
against the fossil record. ...
The fossil record supports 'macroeveolution'. That's how scientist got the
idea in the first place.
But since you hold true science with the highest regards, why don't you
supply some true scientific evidence that falsifies the
'macroevolutionary'
part of the ToE?
Certainly. ...
I'll get back to you on that.
Post by James
... I'll even quote the founder of that pseudoscience, Darwin
himself.
I have a modest bachelor's degree in geology, nut I probably know more about
the ToE than Darwin ever did. You know, the little things, like cells, DNA,
mutations and so on that Darwin had no real knowledge of. Quoting Darwin is
a an appeal to someone who hasn't been an authority on the subject for over
a century. Not only that. You discredit your own authority by calling him a
pseudoscientist. That makes your first attempt a very hillariously poorly
executed fallacy. I just might have to get the popcorn out!
Post by James
The Bible shows that life forms were created independently of each
other. ...
The Bible doesn't 'show' anything about the origin of lifeforms. The Bible
is a book full of old tales, written a long time ago, by very poorly
educated goatherding desert dwellers.
Post by James
... In other words, no transitional links. ...
Oh! You're a 'transitional forms denier'. Denying physical evidence that
contradicts a dogma is the hallmark of creationism and other pseudosciences.

You prefere to pick and choose from the scientific smorgasbord. 'Old Earth?
Yes, please. Transitional forms? No, thank you. Microevolution? Maybe a
little.'
Notice that whatever Darwin said, it has absolutely no impact on the
veracity and understanding of the ToE today.
Post by James
“Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of
such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such
finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious
and serious objection which can be urged against the theory." (The
Origin of Species, by Charles Darwin)
As much work that Darwin did back then, he should have at least
stumbled upon a variety of transitional fossils. HE DIDN'T. And that
bothered him.
And the poor guy didn't understand that he'd already found them.
Post by James
Of the billions of life forms that had ever lived, The ground should
be bursting at the seams with transitional fossils, millions of them.
But they are not just there in the fossil record.
You seem to believe, that 'transitional forms' are somehow special forms,
weired and obvious, easy to spot. Crocoducklike grotesques. I'm not going to
walk you through the whole ordeal, but look at it this way. Every single
fossil ever found is a transitional form. You are as well. Freeze time and
look at what is living on Earth right at any moment. Millions of species.
Good, old fashioned, wholesome, family orientated species. Species you can
point to in the Childrens Illustrated Bible without blushing. Species that
future paleontologists will regard as transitional forms (and future
creationist will deny have ever existed.)
Post by James
... The small amount
they claim today, in no way, supports the macroevolutionary theory.
They play 'musical bones' with their alleged evidence, to make things
appear to come from one another. And they get absurd; dinosaurs to
birds. Watch out for that T-Robin!
Why do accept an old Earth, but not macroevolution, when it is the same
science used to reach the conclusions?
Post by James
So in review, the Bible says each life form was created independently
of each other, thus no transitional life forms. The alleged fossil
record shows very little transitional life forms. Way too small to
have had it happened that way.
And I have showed you that you look at it the wrong way.
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
... The Bible is closer to supporting the
fossil record, than the macroevolution advocates ever were.
Again, I recommend that you back up your claims with evidence and not mere
assertions.
See above concerning transitional life forms.
Where you appeal to the wrong athorities, show an archaic and useless
understanding of species and transitions from one to the other, and where
you quote from ancient, non-scientific texts.
Post by James
Another thing in the fossil record is the abrupt sudden appearance of
(snip Darwin)

You simply have to understand that quotes from neither the Bible nor
'Origin' get you nowhere on your search for 'true scientific evidence'.
Post by James
So the Bible shows God created all those life forms apparently within
a short span of time. ...
You're begging the question again. The Bible doesn't "show". The stories in
the Bible are tales. Scientific papers in Science "show" this or that.
Post by James
... The fossil records shows multi-life forms ...
What are "multi-life forms"? Do you mean 'multicellular life forms'?
Post by James
suddenly appearing in the fossil record, thus supporting the Bible's
account over that theory.
And all the stuff that doesn't support the biblical tale, either doesn't
exist (like transitional forms) or can't happen because Darwin, the
pseudoscientists from 150 years ago, said so himself!
(snip)
Post by James
“In the 1967 publication, The Fossil Record, . . . jointly sponsored
by the Geological Society of London and the Palaeontological
Association of England . . . some 120 scientists, all specialists,
prepared 30 chapters in a monumental work of over 800 pages to present
the fossil record for plants and animals divided into about 2,500
groups. . . .
Each major form or kind of plant and animal is shown to have a
separate and distinct history from all the other forms or kinds!!!
“Groups of both plants and animals appear suddenly in the fossil
record. . . . Whales, bats, horses, primates, elephants, hares,
squirrels, etc., all are as distinct at their first appearance as they
are now. There is not a trace of a common ancestor, much less a link
with any reptile, the supposed progenitor. . . ." (quoted from 73
Awake! mag, 10/22, pp. 17)
Do you find fault above with the Geological Society of London and the
Palaeontological Association of England?
I might have a problem with a conclusion drawn by the editors of Awake! Why
don't you find a quote from the publication itself?

So, let's recap. You promised to provide scientific evidence that falsifies
'macroevolution'. What you came up with was quotes from the Bible, begging
the question, quotes from Darwin, appealing to an obsolete authority, who
you had discredited yourself and a regurgitation by a JW publication of a
800 page symposium from 1967. I think you still owe us. Most certainly, you
owe us.
--
Malte Runz
Malte Runz
2014-09-11 19:52:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Thus if they DO create life from non-life in the lab, it shows it
requires sophisticated and state of the art equipment, ...
No it doesn't.
Post by James
... as well as a
deep understanding of biological life. In other words, it takes GREAT
INTELLECT to create life from non-life.
I'd say it takes great knowledge of chemistry and other scientific
disciplines to figure out how to create life, but once a technique has been
discovered, it'll become 'easy' to create.
Post by James
Yet sadly, people believe that no mind created the complexities of a
life. Just random forces acting on non-life materials. ...
Let's say, for argument's sake, that it takes ten elements, added to the
brew at specific intervals, temperatures and pressure to make a simple
lifeform. It doesn't matter whether the process takes place in a lab, is an
unguided, random series of events happening in nature or something God
orchestrates. The result will be the same. Your job, as a creationist, is to
show that option two, the unguided, random series of events happening in
nature, cannot possibly happen.
Post by James
... (I am waiting
for my car to become alive, so I can sit back and enjoy the ride)
Your strawman shows how little you actually understand.
--
Malte Runz
duke
2014-09-11 22:07:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
Thus if they DO create life from non-life in the lab, it shows it
requires sophisticated and state of the art equipment, ...
No it doesn't.
Post by James
... as well as a
deep understanding of biological life. In other words, it takes GREAT
INTELLECT to create life from non-life.
I'd say it takes great knowledge of chemistry and other scientific
disciplines to figure out how to create life, but once a technique has been
discovered, it'll become 'easy' to create.
But you're confused between "creating life" and God already deciding that
"adding a and b" creates life. Thanks be to God.
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
Yet sadly, people believe that no mind created the complexities of a
life. Just random forces acting on non-life materials. ...
Let's say, for argument's sake, that it takes ten elements, added to the
brew at specific intervals, temperatures and pressure to make a simple
lifeform.
Thanks be to God.
Post by Malte Runz
It doesn't matter whether the process takes place in a lab, is an
unguided, random series of events happening in nature or something God
orchestrates. The result will be the same. Your job, as a creationist, is to
show that option two, the unguided, random series of events happening in
nature, cannot possibly happen.
Post by James
... (I am waiting
for my car to become alive, so I can sit back and enjoy the ride)
Your strawman shows how little you actually understand.
the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Malte Runz
2014-09-11 22:35:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
Thus if they DO create life from non-life in the lab, it shows it
requires sophisticated and state of the art equipment, ...
No it doesn't.
Post by James
... as well as a
deep understanding of biological life. In other words, it takes GREAT
INTELLECT to create life from non-life.
I'd say it takes great knowledge of chemistry and other scientific
disciplines to figure out how to create life, but once a technique has been
discovered, it'll become 'easy' to create.
But you're confused between "creating life" and God already deciding that
"adding a and b" creates life. ...
If you actually read what I wrote you would have noticed that I talk about
the physical creation of life and the knowledge you need to have to be able
to do it. You, on the other hand, are not capable of distinguishing between
scientific discoveries and claiming 'God did it'.
Post by duke
... Thanks be to God.
See what I mean?
Post by duke
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
Yet sadly, people believe that no mind created the complexities of a
life. Just random forces acting on non-life materials. ...
Let's say, for argument's sake, that it takes ten elements, added to the
brew at specific intervals, temperatures and pressure to make a simple
lifeform.
Thanks be to God.
Are you sure it was God? I heard that a god called Krishna caused everything
to happen.

Deep down you know that you're talking crap. You have to know. Nobody is
this stupid in real life (well, except for Ass'roid and Jahnu, but they're
in a league of their own).

(snip)
--
Malte Runz
m***@.not.
2014-09-13 15:57:30 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:52:16 +0200, "Malte Runz" <***@forgitit.dk> wrote:
.
Post by Malte Runz
Post by James
Thus if they DO create life from non-life in the lab, it shows it
requires sophisticated and state of the art equipment, ...
No it doesn't.
Post by James
... as well as a
deep understanding of biological life. In other words, it takes GREAT
INTELLECT to create life from non-life.
I'd say it takes great knowledge of chemistry and other scientific
disciplines to figure out how to create life, but once a technique has been
discovered, it'll become 'easy' to create.
Post by James
Yet sadly, people believe that no mind created the complexities of a
life. Just random forces acting on non-life materials. ...
Let's say, for argument's sake, that it takes ten elements, added to the
brew at specific intervals, temperatures and pressure to make a simple
lifeform. It doesn't matter whether the process takes place in a lab, is an
unguided, random series of events happening in nature or something God
orchestrates. The result will be the same. Your job, as a creationist, is to
show that option two, the unguided, random series of events happening in
nature, cannot possibly happen.
So far humans have only produced evidence of that being the case.
m***@.not.
2014-09-10 20:05:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
What starts the "reaction"? Can you duplicate it in the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
That no human can duplicate.
Yet, though almost all of the mechanisms have been duplicated.
If so, then why can't you produce life from non-life in the best
possible environment, the lab?
The fact that it has not been done yet is not evidence that it can never
be done. Do you have any idea how much biologists have learned in the
past century and how many questions are still being answered? Do you
care?
How many questions needed to be answered in order for life to begin on this
planet? What asked them? What answered them?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
Unless you can explain how God could be native to Earth, if he exists he
would have to be an alien. How could a being be the God of a planet he is native
to anyway?
Free Lunch
2014-09-10 23:16:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
What starts the "reaction"? Can you duplicate it in the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
That no human can duplicate.
Yet, though almost all of the mechanisms have been duplicated.
If so, then why can't you produce life from non-life in the best
possible environment, the lab?
The fact that it has not been done yet is not evidence that it can never
be done. Do you have any idea how much biologists have learned in the
past century and how many questions are still being answered? Do you
care?
How many questions needed to be answered in order for life to begin on this
planet?
Zero.
Post by m***@.not.
What asked them?
Nothing.
Post by m***@.not.
What answered them?
Nothing.
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
Unless you can explain how God could be native to Earth, if he exists he
would have to be an alien. How could a being be the God of a planet he is native
to anyway?
I don't explain any gods because I am not a theist. If you want to know
about that, ask theists, atheists don't care about theistic claims.
m***@.not.
2014-09-13 15:57:16 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:16:00 -0500, Free Lunch <***@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
What starts the "reaction"? Can you duplicate it in the lab?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
That no human can duplicate.
Yet, though almost all of the mechanisms have been duplicated.
If so, then why can't you produce life from non-life in the best
possible environment, the lab?
The fact that it has not been done yet is not evidence that it can never
be done. Do you have any idea how much biologists have learned in the
past century and how many questions are still being answered? Do you
care?
How many questions needed to be answered in order for life to begin on this
planet?
Zero.
Post by m***@.not.
What asked them?
Nothing.
Post by m***@.not.
What answered them?
Nothing.
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
Unless you can explain how God could be native to Earth, if he exists he
would have to be an alien. How could a being be the God of a planet he is native
to anyway?
I don't explain any gods because I am not a theist. If you want to know
about that, ask theists, atheists don't care about theistic claims.
So you had no idea what you thought you were trying to talk about when you
said "no". Why do you make claims pretending to have some clue, when you clearly
have no clue at all?
Free Lunch
2014-09-13 16:25:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@.not.
.
...
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
Unless you can explain how God could be native to Earth, if he exists he
would have to be an alien. How could a being be the God of a planet he is native
to anyway?
I don't explain any gods because I am not a theist. If you want to know
about that, ask theists, atheists don't care about theistic claims.
So you had no idea what you thought you were trying to talk about when you
said "no". Why do you make claims pretending to have some clue, when you clearly
have no clue at all?
I don't have any reason to accept your unsubstantiated assumption that
gods exist or have something to do with life on earth.
m***@.not.
2014-09-18 21:20:29 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 11:25:40 -0500, Free Lunch <***@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
...
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
Unless you can explain how God could be native to Earth, if he exists he
would have to be an alien. How could a being be the God of a planet he is native
to anyway?
I don't explain any gods because I am not a theist. If you want to know
about that, ask theists, atheists don't care about theistic claims.
So you had no idea what you thought you were trying to talk about when you
said "no". Why do you make claims pretending to have some clue, when you clearly
have no clue at all?
I don't have any reason to accept your unsubstantiated assumption that
gods exist or have something to do with life on earth.
Regardless of that your "no" was still a clueless response.
Free Lunch
2014-09-18 22:41:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@.not.
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
...
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
Unless you can explain how God could be native to Earth, if he exists he
would have to be an alien. How could a being be the God of a planet he is native
to anyway?
I don't explain any gods because I am not a theist. If you want to know
about that, ask theists, atheists don't care about theistic claims.
So you had no idea what you thought you were trying to talk about when you
said "no". Why do you make claims pretending to have some clue, when you clearly
have no clue at all?
I don't have any reason to accept your unsubstantiated assumption that
gods exist or have something to do with life on earth.
Regardless of that your "no" was still a clueless response.
You are the one who foolishly decided that aliens are the only
alternative to gods in causing life on earth. You have chosen to be a
fool. I quite understand how little you understand about science or
religion or anything else. I am quite happy not to be you.

Keep worshipping your own ignorance. You'll stay happy.
m***@.not.
2014-09-25 22:34:14 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:41:01 -0500, Free Lunch <***@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
...
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
Unless you can explain how God could be native to Earth, if he exists he
would have to be an alien. How could a being be the God of a planet he is native
to anyway?
I don't explain any gods because I am not a theist. If you want to know
about that, ask theists, atheists don't care about theistic claims.
So you had no idea what you thought you were trying to talk about when you
said "no". Why do you make claims pretending to have some clue, when you clearly
have no clue at all?
I don't have any reason to accept your unsubstantiated assumption that
gods exist or have something to do with life on earth.
Regardless of that your "no" was still a clueless response.
You are the one who foolishly decided that aliens are the only
alternative to gods
You've revealed the fact that YOU ALSO don't believe a God could be native
to a planet he is the God of. You may not and probably can't consider the topic
in any realistic way(s) at all, but you've shown you had no reason to say "no".
Post by Free Lunch
in causing life on earth.
Even IF humans are eventually able to produce life from lifeless material
life might STILL REMAIN evidence of God's existence as it still is today.
Post by Free Lunch
You have chosen to be a
fool. I quite understand how little you understand about science
I'm able to consider how science, evolution, and God could all be part of
the same big picture. You're not.
Post by Free Lunch
or religion or anything else. I am quite happy not to be you.
Keep worshipping your own ignorance. You'll stay happy.
You try to pretend you have some superior information yet you're unable to
even attempt to explain what you think it is. I challenge you to try to explain
why I should put my faith in the one possibility that there is no God associated
with Earth. I do consider it, but you need to give good detailed reason(s) why I
should put faith in that being the correct possibility before I could ever have
any reason to consider the possibility that you're somehow in a superior
position. So far all you've shown is that you're able to consider LESS than I
am, certainly not as much, and most especially not more.
Free Lunch
2014-09-25 23:24:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@.not.
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
...
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
Unless you can explain how God could be native to Earth, if he exists he
would have to be an alien. How could a being be the God of a planet he is native
to anyway?
I don't explain any gods because I am not a theist. If you want to know
about that, ask theists, atheists don't care about theistic claims.
So you had no idea what you thought you were trying to talk about when you
said "no". Why do you make claims pretending to have some clue, when you clearly
have no clue at all?
I don't have any reason to accept your unsubstantiated assumption that
gods exist or have something to do with life on earth.
Regardless of that your "no" was still a clueless response.
You are the one who foolishly decided that aliens are the only
alternative to gods
You've revealed the fact that YOU ALSO don't believe a God could be native
to a planet he is the God of. You may not and probably can't consider the topic
in any realistic way(s) at all, but you've shown you had no reason to say "no".
Feel free to invent new definitions of gods. I will feel free to ignore
your added silliness.

...
m***@.not.
2014-09-29 01:05:10 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:24:10 -0500, Free Lunch <***@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
...
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
What is the mechanism or energy that
causes life to appear in a life form? Alien technology from the galaxy
Andromeda?
No gods needed.
Then its aliens?
No.
Unless you can explain how God could be native to Earth, if he exists he
would have to be an alien. How could a being be the God of a planet he is native
to anyway?
I don't explain any gods because I am not a theist. If you want to know
about that, ask theists, atheists don't care about theistic claims.
So you had no idea what you thought you were trying to talk about when you
said "no". Why do you make claims pretending to have some clue, when you clearly
have no clue at all?
I don't have any reason to accept your unsubstantiated assumption that
gods exist or have something to do with life on earth.
Regardless of that your "no" was still a clueless response.
You are the one who foolishly decided that aliens are the only
alternative to gods
You've revealed the fact that YOU ALSO don't believe a God could be native
to a planet he is the God of. You may not and probably can't consider the topic
in any realistic way(s) at all, but you've shown you had no reason to say "no".
Post by Free Lunch
in causing life on earth.
Even IF humans are eventually able to produce life from lifeless material
life might STILL REMAIN evidence of God's existence as it still is today.
Post by Free Lunch
You have chosen to be a
fool. I quite understand how little you understand about science
I'm able to consider how science, evolution, and God could all be part of
the same big picture. You're not.
Post by Free Lunch
or religion or anything else. I am quite happy not to be you.
Keep worshipping your own ignorance. You'll stay happy.
You try to pretend you have some superior information yet you're unable to
even attempt to explain what you think it is. I challenge you to try to explain
why I should put my faith in the one possibility that there is no God associated
with Earth. I do consider it, but you need to give good detailed reason(s) why I
should put faith in that being the correct possibility before I could ever have
any reason to consider the possibility that you're somehow in a superior
position. So far all you've shown is that you're able to consider LESS than I
am, certainly not as much, and most especially not more.
Feel free to invent new definitions of gods. I will feel free to ignore
your added silliness.
You can't comprehend the possibility at all. It's not that you "feel free to
ignore" it. It's that you're not mentally capable of thinking about it
realistically even if you wanted to. The only question is what restricts you
from having the ability. Is your little mind so physically limited that even
such an easy concept is physically beyond what it's able to handle? Or is there
something else restricting you from being capable? THAT second possibility is
how you atheists are evidence of God's existence by being evidence of Satan's
influence on human brains.

m***@.not.
2014-09-10 19:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur
C. Clarke
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
Even IF humans eventually learn to produce life from lifeless material life
might STILL REMAIN evidence of God's existence.
Free Lunch
2014-09-10 23:16:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur
C. Clarke
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
Even IF humans eventually learn to produce life from lifeless material life
might STILL REMAIN evidence of God's existence.
No.
m***@.not.
2014-09-13 15:57:43 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:16:18 -0500, Free Lunch <***@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
.
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur
C. Clarke
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
Even IF humans eventually learn to produce life from lifeless material life
might STILL REMAIN evidence of God's existence.
No.
Provide your evidence.
Free Lunch
2014-09-13 16:27:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@.not.
.
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur
C. Clarke
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
Even IF humans eventually learn to produce life from lifeless material life
might STILL REMAIN evidence of God's existence.
No.
Provide your evidence.
For what?

You are the one who makes unsubstantiated assertions about gods.
m***@.not.
2014-09-18 21:20:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 11:27:40 -0500, Free Lunch <***@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur
C. Clarke
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
Even IF humans eventually learn to produce life from lifeless material life
might STILL REMAIN evidence of God's existence.
No.
Provide your evidence.
For what?
That you were correct when you said "no" of course.
Free Lunch
2014-09-18 22:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@.not.
.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by m***@.not.
.
Post by m***@.not.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur
C. Clarke
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
Even IF humans eventually learn to produce life from lifeless material life
might STILL REMAIN evidence of God's existence.
No.
Provide your evidence.
For what?
That you were correct when you said "no" of course.
Since there is no evidence that any gods exist, it is silly to
speculate about what those apparently nonexistent entities do.
James
2014-09-14 15:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Yet you still cannot produce it in the lab. If you don't want to call
it a "miracle", then call it an unsolved "mystery". Whatever it is, so
far it is beyond human thinking.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
It is not that simple, since you cannot duplicate it in the lab.


James
www.jw.org
Free Lunch
2014-09-14 15:34:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Yet you still cannot produce it in the lab. If you don't want to call
it a "miracle", then call it an unsolved "mystery". Whatever it is, so
far it is beyond human thinking.
It is true that scientists have not yet developed life in a lab, though
they have managed to assemble a virus. This isn't because it is beyond
human thinking.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
It is not that simple, since you cannot duplicate it in the lab.
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence. Your ignorance of science and blind adherence to
religious dogma makes it impossible for you to engage in informed
discussion.
James
2014-09-15 14:59:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Yet you still cannot produce it in the lab. If you don't want to call
it a "miracle", then call it an unsolved "mystery". Whatever it is, so
far it is beyond human thinking.
It is true that scientists have not yet developed life in a lab, though
they have managed to assemble a virus. This isn't because it is beyond
human thinking.
Are not viruses alive? Then they would have created life from nonlife.
Or did they take something already alive, and change it to be
something different?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
It is not that simple, since you cannot duplicate it in the lab.
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
Post by Free Lunch
Your ignorance of science and blind adherence to
religious dogma makes it impossible for you to engage in informed
discussion.
On the contrary, your dedication to the latest scientific false theory
blinds your eyes to the real truths from the Bible.

You really don't know me. I love true science, but hate pseudoscience.
(like astrology and macroevolution, etc) I do not blindly follow the
Bible. If we were supposed to blindly follow the Bible, then God could
not punish us for blindly following Buddhism, etc. I verify whateveer
I can from the Bible. I have found it to be a book of profound truths.


James
www.jw.org
Free Lunch
2014-09-15 22:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Yet you still cannot produce it in the lab. If you don't want to call
it a "miracle", then call it an unsolved "mystery". Whatever it is, so
far it is beyond human thinking.
It is true that scientists have not yet developed life in a lab, though
they have managed to assemble a virus. This isn't because it is beyond
human thinking.
Are not viruses alive?
Sometimes, but when they are not hosted in active cells, they really
aren't.
Post by James
Then they would have created life from nonlife.
Not exactly. What does it matter to you? You worship your science
ignorance and celebrate your religion's foolish claims.
Post by James
Or did they take something already alive, and change it to be
something different?
They assembled it from subparts.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
It is not that simple, since you cannot duplicate it in the lab.
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement?
No.
Post by James
It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
The evidence is fully consistent with life arising from prebiotic
chemicals. There is no requirement for an intelligence. That is just an
unscientific claim made by religious people to defend their erroneous,
dishonest claims about life on earth.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Your ignorance of science and blind adherence to
religious dogma makes it impossible for you to engage in informed
discussion.
On the contrary, your dedication to the latest scientific false theory
blinds your eyes to the real truths from the Bible.
What about the real falsehoods found in the Bible. Why don't you address
those? If there are any real truths in the Bible, they will be
consistent with everything else in the universe that is true. It is
quite clear that the Bible is not very reliable. It is useless for
science, very inaccurate for history, not much of a moral guide, and
full of unsubstantiated claims.
Post by James
You really don't know me. I love true science, but hate pseudoscience.
You have made it clear that you will dismiss all scientific evidence
that does not fit your religious prejudices.
Post by James
(like astrology and macroevolution, etc)
Your ignorance of biology is noted.
Post by James
I do not blindly follow the
Bible. If we were supposed to blindly follow the Bible, then God could
not punish us for blindly following Buddhism, etc. I verify whateveer
I can from the Bible. I have found it to be a book of profound truths.
It is not. You have been misled by your religious teachers.
Post by James
James
www.jw.org
James
2014-09-16 14:32:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Yet you still cannot produce it in the lab. If you don't want to call
it a "miracle", then call it an unsolved "mystery". Whatever it is, so
far it is beyond human thinking.
It is true that scientists have not yet developed life in a lab, though
they have managed to assemble a virus. This isn't because it is beyond
human thinking.
Are not viruses alive?
Sometimes, but when they are not hosted in active cells, they really
aren't.
Post by James
Then they would have created life from nonlife.
Not exactly. What does it matter to you? You worship your science
ignorance and celebrate your religion's foolish claims.
Your two opinions are noted, but I prefer to deal with facts, not
speculation.

And I stand by any and all teachings of my religion, since they are
based squarely on the Bible.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Or did they take something already alive, and change it to be
something different?
They assembled it from subparts.
Apparently, to consider some of them alive, they have to work with a
previous life. (see
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-viruses-alive-2004/)
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
It is not that simple, since you cannot duplicate it in the lab.
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement?
No.
Why?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
The evidence is fully consistent with life arising from prebiotic
chemicals. There is no requirement for an intelligence. That is just an
unscientific claim made by religious people to defend their erroneous,
dishonest claims about life on earth.
If you want erroneous claims, just consider macroevolution!
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Your ignorance of science and blind adherence to
religious dogma makes it impossible for you to engage in informed
discussion.
On the contrary, your dedication to the latest scientific false theory
blinds your eyes to the real truths from the Bible.
What about the real falsehoods found in the Bible. Why don't you address
those? If there are any real truths in the Bible, they will be
consistent with everything else in the universe that is true. It is
quite clear that the Bible is not very reliable. It is useless for
science, very inaccurate for history, not much of a moral guide, and
full of unsubstantiated claims.
I will address anything that has to do with the Bible. I have always
found the Bible to be accurate in scientific matters.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
You really don't know me. I love true science, but hate pseudoscience.
You have made it clear that you will dismiss all scientific evidence
that does not fit your religious prejudices.
Actually, science helps to support the Bible, rather than the
opposite. If you have some examples you want to discuss (except
miracles which I can't prove and you can't disprove), throw them my
way. I have yet to find one bonafide science that CLEARLY goes against
the Bible. Since God created all the natural sciences, then His
commenting on them would be always correct.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
(like astrology and macroevolution, etc)
Your ignorance of biology is noted.
Your opinion about my biological knowledge is noted.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
I do not blindly follow the
Bible. If we were supposed to blindly follow the Bible, then God could
not punish us for blindly following Buddhism, etc. I verify whateveer
I can from the Bible. I have found it to be a book of profound truths.
It is not. You have been misled by your religious teachers.
Again, your opinion (lacking in evidence), is noted.

James
www.jw.org
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
James
www.jw.org
Free Lunch
2014-09-16 22:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Yet you still cannot produce it in the lab. If you don't want to call
it a "miracle", then call it an unsolved "mystery". Whatever it is, so
far it is beyond human thinking.
It is true that scientists have not yet developed life in a lab, though
they have managed to assemble a virus. This isn't because it is beyond
human thinking.
Are not viruses alive?
Sometimes, but when they are not hosted in active cells, they really
aren't.
Post by James
Then they would have created life from nonlife.
Not exactly. What does it matter to you? You worship your science
ignorance and celebrate your religion's foolish claims.
Your two opinions are noted, but I prefer to deal with facts, not
speculation.
Show me.
Post by James
And I stand by any and all teachings of my religion, since they are
based squarely on the Bible.
Which has nothing to do with facts. Do you really need to contradict
yourself so quickly?
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Or did they take something already alive, and change it to be
something different?
They assembled it from subparts.
Apparently, to consider some of them alive, they have to work with a
previous life. (see
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-viruses-alive-2004/)
That article is ten years old.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
It is not that simple, since you cannot duplicate it in the lab.
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement?
No.
Why?
You keep making excuses for your religious teachings and falsely
claiming your misrepresentations of science are true.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
The evidence is fully consistent with life arising from prebiotic
chemicals. There is no requirement for an intelligence. That is just an
unscientific claim made by religious people to defend their erroneous,
dishonest claims about life on earth.
If you want erroneous claims, just consider macroevolution!
There is nothing erroneous about speciation. Of course many religious
folks have a private, absurd definition of macroevolution.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Your ignorance of science and blind adherence to
religious dogma makes it impossible for you to engage in informed
discussion.
On the contrary, your dedication to the latest scientific false theory
blinds your eyes to the real truths from the Bible.
What about the real falsehoods found in the Bible. Why don't you address
those? If there are any real truths in the Bible, they will be
consistent with everything else in the universe that is true. It is
quite clear that the Bible is not very reliable. It is useless for
science, very inaccurate for history, not much of a moral guide, and
full of unsubstantiated claims.
I will address anything that has to do with the Bible. I have always
found the Bible to be accurate in scientific matters.
You are wrong about the Bible and science. It is horribly inaccurate.
You have been corrected on your false claim by several people, but you
continue to make it. Apparently your religion encourages you to lie
about the Bible.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
You really don't know me. I love true science, but hate pseudoscience.
You have made it clear that you will dismiss all scientific evidence
that does not fit your religious prejudices.
Actually, science helps to support the Bible, rather than the
opposite. If you have some examples you want to discuss (except
miracles which I can't prove and you can't disprove), throw them my
way. I have yet to find one bonafide science that CLEARLY goes against
the Bible. Since God created all the natural sciences, then His
commenting on them would be always correct.
Let's start with the most obvious fictions Creation and the Flood. You
know that the scientific evidence shows that both stories are fiction.


...
James
2014-09-17 16:22:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Yet you still cannot produce it in the lab. If you don't want to call
it a "miracle", then call it an unsolved "mystery". Whatever it is, so
far it is beyond human thinking.
It is true that scientists have not yet developed life in a lab, though
they have managed to assemble a virus. This isn't because it is beyond
human thinking.
Are not viruses alive?
Sometimes, but when they are not hosted in active cells, they really
aren't.
Post by James
Then they would have created life from nonlife.
Not exactly. What does it matter to you? You worship your science
ignorance and celebrate your religion's foolish claims.
Your two opinions are noted, but I prefer to deal with facts, not
speculation.
Show me.
Show you what?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
And I stand by any and all teachings of my religion, since they are
based squarely on the Bible.
Which has nothing to do with facts. Do you really need to contradict
yourself so quickly?
I stand by the facts of the Bible.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Or did they take something already alive, and change it to be
something different?
They assembled it from subparts.
Apparently, to consider some of them alive, they have to work with a
previous life. (see
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-viruses-alive-2004/)
That article is ten years old.
Has it been proven wrong then?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
It is not that simple, since you cannot duplicate it in the lab.
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement?
No.
Why?
You keep making excuses for your religious teachings and falsely
claiming your misrepresentations of science are true.
The Bible's discussion of science is true. And if I accurately
portray the Bible's discussion of science, then what I say is true
also.

Do you have an example of what you call a 'false' Biblical science
teaching?
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
The evidence is fully consistent with life arising from prebiotic
chemicals. There is no requirement for an intelligence. That is just an
unscientific claim made by religious people to defend their erroneous,
dishonest claims about life on earth.
If you want erroneous claims, just consider macroevolution!
There is nothing erroneous about speciation. Of course many religious
folks have a private, absurd definition of macroevolution.
The Bible account of creation is closer to the truth and the fossil
record, than your theory of macroevolution.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Your ignorance of science and blind adherence to
religious dogma makes it impossible for you to engage in informed
discussion.
On the contrary, your dedication to the latest scientific false theory
blinds your eyes to the real truths from the Bible.
What about the real falsehoods found in the Bible. Why don't you address
those? If there are any real truths in the Bible, they will be
consistent with everything else in the universe that is true. It is
quite clear that the Bible is not very reliable. It is useless for
science, very inaccurate for history, not much of a moral guide, and
full of unsubstantiated claims.
I will address anything that has to do with the Bible. I have always
found the Bible to be accurate in scientific matters.
You are wrong about the Bible and science. It is horribly inaccurate.
You have been corrected on your false claim by several people, but you
continue to make it. Apparently your religion encourages you to lie
about the Bible.
Show me from the Bible, what you call an 'inaccurate' science
statement.

Yes, many people have adhered to that ridiculous theory and highly
failed to waver my Bible facts that are in harmony with the fossil
record.
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
You really don't know me. I love true science, but hate pseudoscience.
You have made it clear that you will dismiss all scientific evidence
that does not fit your religious prejudices.
Actually, science helps to support the Bible, rather than the
opposite. If you have some examples you want to discuss (except
miracles which I can't prove and you can't disprove), throw them my
way. I have yet to find one bonafide science that CLEARLY goes against
the Bible. Since God created all the natural sciences, then His
commenting on them would be always correct.
Let's start with the most obvious fictions Creation and the Flood. You
know that the scientific evidence shows that both stories are fiction.
Not at all. Both accouts are right on the money. In what ways do you
say they are wrong?

James
www.jw.org
Post by Free Lunch
...
Malte Runz
2014-09-17 22:30:24 UTC
Permalink
(snip)
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
You keep making excuses for your religious teachings and falsely
claiming your misrepresentations of science are true.
The Bible's discussion of science is true. And if I accurately
portray the Bible's discussion of science, then what I say is true
also.
Do you have an example of what you call a 'false' Biblical science
teaching?
You have got to be kidding!

(snip)
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
There is nothing erroneous about speciation. Of course many religious
folks have a private, absurd definition of macroevolution.
The Bible account of creation is closer to the truth and the fossil
record, than your theory of macroevolution.
What the...? Even if there was no kind of evolution at all, the Biblical
account is still incorrect. The fossil record shows that 99% of all
lifeforms came and went before man showed his face on Earth. The fossil
record shows that man has only been on Earth for a fraction of the time
since it came into existence.
And so on.

(snip)
Post by James
Show me from the Bible, what you call an 'inaccurate' science
statement.
You're leaving yourself wide open.
Post by James
Yes, many people have adhered to that ridiculous theory and highly
failed to waver my Bible facts that are in harmony with the fossil
record.
Are you the same James who claimed he loved true science?

(snip)
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Let's start with the most obvious fictions Creation and the Flood. You
know that the scientific evidence shows that both stories are fiction.
Not at all. Both accouts are right on the money. In what ways do you
say they are wrong?
The world wasn't completely covered in water 4000 years ago.
There is no universal genetic bottleneck dating back 4000 years.

And so on.
--
Malte Runz
Free Lunch
2014-09-17 22:55:01 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Are not viruses alive?
Sometimes, but when they are not hosted in active cells, they really
aren't.
Post by James
Then they would have created life from nonlife.
Not exactly. What does it matter to you? You worship your science
ignorance and celebrate your religion's foolish claims.
Your two opinions are noted, but I prefer to deal with facts, not
speculation.
Show me.
Show you what?
Facts. You claim to deal in facts. Where are they?
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
And I stand by any and all teachings of my religion, since they are
based squarely on the Bible.
Which has nothing to do with facts. Do you really need to contradict
yourself so quickly?
I stand by the facts of the Bible.
A small subset of the Bible.

...
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Or did they take something already alive, and change it to be
something different?
They assembled it from subparts.
Apparently, to consider some of them alive, they have to work with a
previous life. (see
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-viruses-alive-2004/)
That article is ten years old.
Has it been proven wrong then?
It has nothing to do with your unsupported claims.

...
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
You keep making excuses for your religious teachings and falsely
claiming your misrepresentations of science are true.
The Bible's discussion of science is true.
So you falsely assert.
Post by James
And if I accurately
portray the Bible's discussion of science, then what I say is true
also.
You do not accurately portray the Bible's discussion of science.
Post by James
Do you have an example of what you call a 'false' Biblical science
teaching?
Creation, the Flood, Hebrew cosmology.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
The evidence is fully consistent with life arising from prebiotic
chemicals. There is no requirement for an intelligence. That is just an
unscientific claim made by religious people to defend their erroneous,
dishonest claims about life on earth.
If you want erroneous claims, just consider macroevolution!
There is nothing erroneous about speciation. Of course many religious
folks have a private, absurd definition of macroevolution.
The Bible account of creation is closer to the truth and the fossil
record, than your theory of macroevolution.
So you claim, but you offer no evidence at all to support your claim.
The evidence shows that you are wrong.

...
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
What about the real falsehoods found in the Bible. Why don't you address
those? If there are any real truths in the Bible, they will be
consistent with everything else in the universe that is true. It is
quite clear that the Bible is not very reliable. It is useless for
science, very inaccurate for history, not much of a moral guide, and
full of unsubstantiated claims.
I will address anything that has to do with the Bible. I have always
found the Bible to be accurate in scientific matters.
You are wrong about the Bible and science. It is horribly inaccurate.
You have been corrected on your false claim by several people, but you
continue to make it. Apparently your religion encourages you to lie
about the Bible.
Show me from the Bible, what you call an 'inaccurate' science
statement.
I have given you examples from the first stories in the Bible. You have
offered no evidence to support your allegation.
Post by James
Yes, many people have adhered to that ridiculous theory and highly
failed to waver my Bible facts that are in harmony with the fossil
record.
Nonsense. You have to twist the Bible in knots to make any attempt to
get its stories to square with the evidence. The Flood is absurdly
wrong. Creation is meaningless in relation to science.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
You really don't know me. I love true science, but hate pseudoscience.
You have made it clear that you will dismiss all scientific evidence
that does not fit your religious prejudices.
Actually, science helps to support the Bible, rather than the
opposite. If you have some examples you want to discuss (except
miracles which I can't prove and you can't disprove), throw them my
way. I have yet to find one bonafide science that CLEARLY goes against
the Bible. Since God created all the natural sciences, then His
commenting on them would be always correct.
Let's start with the most obvious fictions Creation and the Flood. You
know that the scientific evidence shows that both stories are fiction.
Not at all. Both accouts are right on the money. In what ways do you
say they are wrong?
Repeating your falsehood only shows us that you worship the dishonesty
of your religion, that you don't care that you are not honest.
Malte Runz
2014-09-16 09:36:00 UTC
Permalink
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which chemicals to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence that makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
... It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
Acid turns litmus red whether it's Einstein mixing the two, or it's a random
incident taking place, unguided in nature.
Post by Free Lunch
Your ignorance of science and blind adherence to
religious dogma makes it impossible for you to engage in informed
discussion.
On the contrary, your dedication to the latest scientific false theory
blinds your eyes to the real truths from the Bible.
Can God make litmus turn green in acid?

(snip)
--
Malte Runz
James
2014-09-16 14:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which chemicals to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence that makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
Well, if the natural formation of some chemicals is 1 in a million,
and the lab immediately puts them together, then intelligence is
jump-starting nature to produce the desired results.
Post by Malte Runz
... It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
Acid turns litmus red whether it's Einstein mixing the two, or it's a random
incident taking place, unguided in nature.
Yes, nature can produce acids of varying kinds, but where does the
litmus paper come from? Again you need intellegence and good lab
equipment in order to attempt to produce life from non life.
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Free Lunch
Your ignorance of science and blind adherence to
religious dogma makes it impossible for you to engage in informed
discussion.
On the contrary, your dedication to the latest scientific false theory
blinds your eyes to the real truths from the Bible.
Can God make litmus turn green in acid?
A piece of cake if He wanted to. What has that got to do with
producing life from non life?

James
www.jw.org
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
duke
2014-09-16 20:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which chemicals to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence that makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
Well, if the natural formation of some chemicals is 1 in a million,
and the lab immediately puts them together, then intelligence is
jump-starting nature to produce the desired results.
God established the combination to produce a specific result.


the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Free Lunch
2014-09-16 22:33:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which chemicals to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence that makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
Well, if the natural formation of some chemicals is 1 in a million,
and the lab immediately puts them together, then intelligence is
jump-starting nature to produce the desired results.
God established the combination to produce a specific result.
Theists have such an easy time making that claim, but then they fail
completely to show that the claim is true.
Free Lunch
2014-09-16 22:31:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which chemicals to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence that makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
Well, if the natural formation of some chemicals is 1 in a million,
and the lab immediately puts them together, then intelligence is
jump-starting nature to produce the desired results.
But you are denying that life could arise in a billion years in billions
of possible environmental niches. Why?
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
... It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
Acid turns litmus red whether it's Einstein mixing the two, or it's a random
incident taking place, unguided in nature.
Yes, nature can produce acids of varying kinds, but where does the
litmus paper come from? Again you need intellegence and good lab
equipment in order to attempt to produce life from non life.
Why do you claim that there is no way for life to arise naturally? Show
us exactly what the limitation is.
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Free Lunch
Your ignorance of science and blind adherence to
religious dogma makes it impossible for you to engage in informed
discussion.
On the contrary, your dedication to the latest scientific false theory
blinds your eyes to the real truths from the Bible.
Can God make litmus turn green in acid?
A piece of cake if He wanted to. What has that got to do with
producing life from non life?
You are the one who has been misled about the beginning of life.
Malte Runz
2014-09-16 22:24:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which chemicals to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence that makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
Well, if the natural formation of some chemicals is 1 in a million, ...
Where do you get that number from? Take amino acid. You find it pretty much
everywhere in the Universe. What '1 in a million' chemical needed in the
process did you have in mind?
and the lab immediately puts them together, then intelligence is
jump-starting nature to produce the desired results.
Irrelevant. If the chemical reaction can take place in the lab, than the
exact same reaction will take place as a random, unguided event in nature.
Post by Malte Runz
... It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
Acid turns litmus red whether it's Einstein mixing the two, or it's a random
incident taking place, unguided in nature.
Yes, nature can produce acids of varying kinds, but where does the
litmus paper come from? ...
Note that I chose my words carefully and did not say litmus /paper/. Litmus
is a natural compound and if the wind blows a piece of lichen in a pool of
acidic solution a specific reaction will happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litmus
... Again you need intellegence and good lab
equipment in order to attempt to produce life from non life.
No. You need naturally occuring chemicals to react under the right
circumstances. It's up to you to show that nature cannot produce the right
circumstances. You must explain why 'litmus cannot meet acid in nature'.
Until then abiogenesis remains a viable hypothesis.

(snip)
Post by Malte Runz
Can God make litmus turn green in acid?
A piece of cake if He wanted to. ...
But since we have NEVER seen it happen we must assume that God never wanted
to. Why should he even bother, eh? Got a lot on his plate. Very busy
schedule, I imagine. There's always some killin' to do around the farm.
(Points for knowing where that line is from.)
... What has that got to do with
producing life from non life?
How do you know that God is not bound or restricted by the laws of nature?
Can you give us an example of this? An example of a strange, mysterious
thing happening that breaks the laws of nature and can only be explained by
an action of God (and please don't say 'He created life and Universe and all
the rest!!!'). A specific, well documented incident, that shows that God is
truly omnipotent. Bet you can't.
--
Malte Runz
James
2014-09-17 17:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which chemicals to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence that makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
Well, if the natural formation of some chemicals is 1 in a million, ...
Where do you get that number from? Take amino acid. You find it pretty much
everywhere in the Universe. What '1 in a million' chemical needed in the
process did you have in mind?
I was just using that as an example and had none in mind. But
concerning your amino acids, the probability of just one specific
protein arising by random chance shuffling of an ocean full of amino
acids is no better than one in 10/520, and thousands are needed along
with an encyclopedic amount of DNA. Consider that the total atoms in
the universe is estimated to be only 10/80. Only atheists believe in
spontaneous generation in spite of those odds.
Post by Malte Runz
and the lab immediately puts them together, then intelligence is
jump-starting nature to produce the desired results.
Irrelevant. If the chemical reaction can take place in the lab, than the
exact same reaction will take place as a random, unguided event in nature.
Not at all. In the lab, it would depend upon state of the art lab
equipment, and the chemicals used. For example,

"Some man-made stones exist solely as lab created stones while other
man-made stones also have natural counterparts. Cubic zirconia and
crystal are examples of stones that are always man-made".
(http://pandoragroup.com/Products/Jewellery%20materials/Man-made%20stones)
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
... It would take state of the art
scientific machines, and an abundant knowledge of biology etc, to
creat life from nonlife. Nature has neither, yet you are giving her
credit for doing so.
Acid turns litmus red whether it's Einstein mixing the two, or it's a random
incident taking place, unguided in nature.
Yes, nature can produce acids of varying kinds, but where does the
litmus paper come from? ...
Note that I chose my words carefully and did not say litmus /paper/. Litmus
is a natural compound and if the wind blows a piece of lichen in a pool of
acidic solution a specific reaction will happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litmus
... Again you need intellegence and good lab
equipment in order to attempt to produce life from non life.
No. You need naturally occuring chemicals to react under the right
circumstances. It's up to you to show that nature cannot produce the right
circumstances. You must explain why 'litmus cannot meet acid in nature'.
Until then abiogenesis remains a viable hypothesis.
How do you also explain the wide variety of life forms, from
microscopic to whales? All from mindless forces?

Recall the fruit fly experiments. They tried everything to get those
flies to turn into a new life form. But they ALWAYS remained fruit
flies. Some may have had two heads and other grotest mutations, but
they couldn't stop them from reverting back to the standard fruit fly.
Now that was under lab conditions with highly trained personal. How in
the world is a no mind energy supposed to do better?
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Malte Runz
Can God make litmus turn green in acid?
A piece of cake if He wanted to. ...
But since we have NEVER seen it happen we must assume that God never wanted
to. Why should he even bother, eh? Got a lot on his plate. Very busy
schedule, I imagine. There's always some killin' to do around the farm.
(Points for knowing where that line is from.)
Not "some" killings, but a lot of killings. The upcoming dead will be
from 'one part of the earth clear to the other'. (Jer 25:33) Jesus
said the path to life is narrow, and "few" find it. (Mt 7:13,14)
Post by Malte Runz
... What has that got to do with
producing life from non life?
How do you know that God is not bound or restricted by the laws of nature?
Can you give us an example of this? An example of a strange, mysterious
thing happening that breaks the laws of nature and can only be explained by
an action of God (and please don't say 'He created life and Universe and all
the rest!!!'). A specific, well documented incident, that shows that God is
truly omnipotent. Bet you can't.
If omnipotent is defined as:

"(of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything."

Then God is not literally to the finest degree, omnipotent. Because
God can't do everything. For example, God cannot lie. Titus 1:2,

"in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long
ages ago," (NASB)

God cannot do what we call 'bad things', like torturing His wicked
children by burning them alive forever. Such a thought never even
entered His mind. (Jer 7:31)

James
www.jw.org
Mitchell Holman
2014-09-17 20:43:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
God cannot do what we call 'bad things',
Like mass murder?




GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God kills every living thing
on the face of the earth other than Noah's family.

Genesis 19:24. God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Exodus 14:23-30 God drowns entire Egyption army.

Genesis 19:17 God turns Lotts wife into a pillar of salt.

Exodus 12:29 God kills every firstborn child in Egypt.

Numbers 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

Numbers 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

Numbers 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

2 Samuel 24:15 The Lord sends a pestilence on Israel
that kills 70,000 men.

2 Kings 1:10-12 Fire from heaven comes down and consumes
fifty men.

2 Kings 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.
Malte Runz
2014-09-17 21:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which
chemicals
to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence that makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
Well, if the natural formation of some chemicals is 1 in a million, ...
Where do you get that number from? Take amino acid. You find it pretty much
everywhere in the Universe. What '1 in a million' chemical needed in the
process did you have in mind?
I was just using that as an example and had none in mind. ...
Your argument, though, hinges on the unlikehood of specific chemical
reactions taking place in nature.
... But
concerning your amino acids, the probability of just one specific
protein arising by random chance shuffling of an ocean full of amino
acids is no better than one in 10/520, and thousands are needed along
with an encyclopedic amount of DNA. Consider that the total atoms in
the universe is estimated to be only 10/80. Only atheists believe in
spontaneous generation in spite of those odds.
I don't understand your numbers, but I see that you argue against a classic
creationist strawman. Nobody claims that a fully functional, modern cell
with all the DNA and so on in working order, came into existence as a random
event 3 billion years ago.
Post by Malte Runz
and the lab immediately puts them together, then intelligence is
jump-starting nature to produce the desired results.
Irrelevant. If the chemical reaction can take place in the lab, than the
exact same reaction will take place as a random, unguided event in nature.
Not at all. In the lab, it would depend upon state of the art lab
equipment, and the chemicals used. For example,
"Some man-made stones exist solely as lab created stones while other
man-made stones also have natural counterparts. Cubic zirconia and
crystal are examples of stones that are always man-made".
(http://pandoragroup.com/Products/Jewellery%20materials/Man-made%20stones)
And all cars are man-made. My point is that it is not the scientist's
intelligence that dictates what happens when two products are allowed to
react. He merely discovers and uses the predictable chain of events to
create a desired end-product, be it cars, cubic zirconia or coca cola.

(snip)
Post by Malte Runz
... Again you need intellegence and good lab
equipment in order to attempt to produce life from non life.
No. You need naturally occuring chemicals to react under the right
circumstances. It's up to you to show that nature cannot produce the right
circumstances. You must explain why 'litmus cannot meet acid in nature'.
Until then abiogenesis remains a viable hypothesis.
How do you also explain the wide variety of life forms, from
microscopic to whales? All from mindless forces?
That's evolution, and a totally different subject. Moving the goal posts
back:

One day intelligent people will manage to create life in the lab, using
nothing but physics and chemistry, and it will be proof that abiogenesis is
possible. It won't prove that that is how it happened here on Earth, but it
will certainly make a creator superfluous regarding the emergence life. If
you disagree you must come up with something better than what you have
presented so far.

(snip)
--
Malte Runz
James
2014-09-19 15:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which
chemicals
to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence that makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
Well, if the natural formation of some chemicals is 1 in a million, ...
Where do you get that number from? Take amino acid. You find it pretty much
everywhere in the Universe. What '1 in a million' chemical needed in the
process did you have in mind?
I was just using that as an example and had none in mind. ...
Your argument, though, hinges on the unlikehood of specific chemical
reactions taking place in nature.
Exactly, it would be something like winning the state lottery 50 times
in a row. The math says it could happen. The reality says no. It is
just too great a number.
Post by Malte Runz
... But
concerning your amino acids, the probability of just one specific
protein arising by random chance shuffling of an ocean full of amino
acids is no better than one in 10/520, and thousands are needed along
with an encyclopedic amount of DNA. Consider that the total atoms in
the universe is estimated to be only 10/80. Only atheists believe in
spontaneous generation in spite of those odds.
I don't understand your numbers, but I see that you argue against a classic
creationist strawman.
JW's are not creationists, as the word means today. Rather they
believe in the account of creation as recorded in Genesis.
Post by Malte Runz
Nobody claims that a fully functional, modern cell
with all the DNA and so on in working order, came into existence as a random
event 3 billion years ago.
Then how do you explain it?
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
and the lab immediately puts them together, then intelligence is
jump-starting nature to produce the desired results.
Irrelevant. If the chemical reaction can take place in the lab, than the
exact same reaction will take place as a random, unguided event in nature.
Not at all. In the lab, it would depend upon state of the art lab
equipment, and the chemicals used. For example,
"Some man-made stones exist solely as lab created stones while other
man-made stones also have natural counterparts. Cubic zirconia and
crystal are examples of stones that are always man-made".
(http://pandoragroup.com/Products/Jewellery%20materials/Man-made%20stones)
And all cars are man-made.
How do you know? If evolution can created sophisticated machines like
the human body and mind, why not less complex machines like a car.

My point is that it is not the scientist's
Post by Malte Runz
intelligence that dictates what happens when two products are allowed to
react. He merely discovers and uses the predictable chain of events to
create a desired end-product, be it cars, cubic zirconia or coca cola.
(snip)
No evolutionist alive today can tell how life started from non-life.
In order for macroevolution to work, it had to start that way.
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
... Again you need intellegence and good lab
equipment in order to attempt to produce life from non life.
No. You need naturally occuring chemicals to react under the right
circumstances. It's up to you to show that nature cannot produce the right
circumstances. You must explain why 'litmus cannot meet acid in nature'.
Until then abiogenesis remains a viable hypothesis.
How do you also explain the wide variety of life forms, from
microscopic to whales? All from mindless forces?
That's evolution, and a totally different subject. Moving the goal posts
The different life forms are alleged to be from mutant DNA. Yet the
fruit fly experiments in the past, showed that mutations were weaker
than nonmutations. And eventually nature gets rid of those mutations
and resorts back to the nonmutant variety.
Post by Malte Runz
One day intelligent people will manage to create life in the lab, using
nothing but physics and chemistry, and it will be proof that abiogenesis is
possible. It won't prove that that is how it happened here on Earth, but it
will certainly make a creator superfluous regarding the emergence life. If
you disagree you must come up with something better than what you have
presented so far.
It is just common scientific sense. It CLEARLY shows that intelligence
is needed to produce life from nonlife. The latest lab equipment along
with highly knowledgeable scientists at the helm, might be able to
produce it some day. I don't know. So far they are batting zero.

If life is truly a miracle from God, then they never will achieve
that. We will have to wait and see. Just tossing all the ingredients
together in the right order, does not guarantee life.

For example, if you stop a man's heart and don't hook up
life-sustaining equipment to him, that man is considered dead. Yet all
his parts are still intact. (at least for a little while) Yet he
doesn't come back to life. His life has left him, whatever the
physical or metaphysical nature of life is.

James
www.jw.org
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Malte Runz
2014-09-19 17:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence
that
we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which
chemicals
to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence
that
makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
Well, if the natural formation of some chemicals is 1 in a million, ...
Where do you get that number from? Take amino acid. You find it pretty much
everywhere in the Universe. What '1 in a million' chemical needed in the
process did you have in mind?
I was just using that as an example and had none in mind. ...
Your argument, though, hinges on the unlikehood of specific chemical
reactions taking place in nature.
Exactly, it would be something like winning the state lottery 50 times
in a row. The math says it could happen. The reality says no. It is
just too great a number.
But where do you get that number from? Which chemical reaction, or which
compound is so rare that it justifies the very high numbers you talk about?
Don't chicken out and ignore the question.
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
... But
concerning your amino acids, the probability of just one specific
protein arising by random chance shuffling of an ocean full of amino
acids is no better than one in 10/520, and thousands are needed along
with an encyclopedic amount of DNA. Consider that the total atoms in
the universe is estimated to be only 10/80. Only atheists believe in
spontaneous generation in spite of those odds.
I don't understand your numbers, but I see that you argue against a classic
creationist strawman.
JW's are not creationists, as the word means today. Rather they
believe in the account of creation as recorded in Genesis.
You believe a god created everything. You're by definition a creationist,
and like your fellow creationist you play the 'a fully functional, modern
cell was created by random forces card'.
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
Nobody claims that a fully functional, modern cell
with all the DNA and so on in working order, came into existence as a random
event 3 billion years ago.
Then how do you explain it?
Type "abiogenesis" in google and read on.
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
and the lab immediately puts them together, then intelligence is
jump-starting nature to produce the desired results.
Irrelevant. If the chemical reaction can take place in the lab, than the
exact same reaction will take place as a random, unguided event in nature.
Not at all. In the lab, it would depend upon state of the art lab
equipment, and the chemicals used. For example,
"Some man-made stones exist solely as lab created stones while other
man-made stones also have natural counterparts. Cubic zirconia and
crystal are examples of stones that are always man-made".
(http://pandoragroup.com/Products/Jewellery%20materials/Man-made%20stones)
And all cars are man-made.
How do you know? If evolution can created sophisticated machines like
the human body and mind, why not less complex machines like a car.
Really! Cars are machines, lifeforms are not. Cars don't replicate,
lifeforms do, and so on. I know you have heard all this before, and
pretending to be ignorant of counterarguments makes you look bad.
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
My point is that it is not the scientist's
intelligence that dictates what happens when two products are allowed to
react. He merely discovers and uses the predictable chain of events to
create a desired end-product, be it cars, cubic zirconia or coca cola.
This is where you should have commented instead of suggesting that
'evolution should be able to create cars as well as lifeforms'.
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
No evolutionist alive today can tell how life started from non-life.
That's right. And...?
Post by James
In order for macroevolution to work, it had to start that way.
Which way?

(snip)
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
One day intelligent people will manage to create life in the lab, using
nothing but physics and chemistry, and it will be proof that abiogenesis is
possible. It won't prove that that is how it happened here on Earth, but it
will certainly make a creator superfluous regarding the emergence life. If
you disagree you must come up with something better than what you have
presented so far.
It is just common scientific sense. It CLEARLY shows that intelligence
is needed to produce life from nonlife. ...
It takes intelligence to figure out how, but the chemical reactions
themselves will happen even if an idiot mixes the materials.
Post by James
... The latest lab equipment along
with highly knowledgeable scientists at the helm, might be able to
produce it some day. I don't know. So far they are batting zero.
And we're back to where we started. Chemical reactions happen in predictable
ways no matter how they come into contact with each other. If scientists can
mix A,B and C in the lab and create life, then a random event in nature,
that brings A,B and C together will also create life. It is not the
intelligence of the scientist that dictates what kind of reaction the
chemicals will create.
Post by James
If life is truly a miracle ...
Bingo! Now you're talking.
Post by James
... from God, then they never will achieve
that. We will have to wait and see. Just tossing all the ingredients
together in the right order, does not guarantee life.
And when we eventually manage to create it in the lab, we will see that the
creation of life doesn't need a "miracle".

(snip)
--
Malte Runz
duke
2014-09-19 20:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
(snip)
Post by Free Lunch
And when there is life in a lab, you will say that is evidence that we
needed intelligence.
Would that not be a true statement? ...
It's true that it takes intelligent people to figure out which
chemicals
to
mix and under what condition. But it's not (human) intelligence that makes
the chemistry react in the predictable manner.
Well, if the natural formation of some chemicals is 1 in a million, ...
Where do you get that number from? Take amino acid. You find it pretty much
everywhere in the Universe. What '1 in a million' chemical needed in the
process did you have in mind?
I was just using that as an example and had none in mind. ...
Your argument, though, hinges on the unlikehood of specific chemical
reactions taking place in nature.
Exactly, it would be something like winning the state lottery 50 times
in a row. The math says it could happen. The reality says no. It is
just too great a number.
Post by Malte Runz
... But
concerning your amino acids, the probability of just one specific
protein arising by random chance shuffling of an ocean full of amino
acids is no better than one in 10/520, and thousands are needed along
with an encyclopedic amount of DNA. Consider that the total atoms in
the universe is estimated to be only 10/80. Only atheists believe in
spontaneous generation in spite of those odds.
I don't understand your numbers, but I see that you argue against a classic
creationist strawman.
JW's are not creationists, as the word means today. Rather they
believe in the account of creation as recorded in Genesis.
So what is a Creationist according to your definition?
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
Nobody claims that a fully functional, modern cell
with all the DNA and so on in working order, came into existence as a random
event 3 billion years ago.
Then how do you explain it?
It evolved over millions to billions of years.
Post by James
Post by Malte Runz
Post by Malte Runz
and the lab immediately puts them together, then intelligence is
jump-starting nature to produce the desired results.
Irrelevant. If the chemical reaction can take place in the lab, than the
exact same reaction will take place as a random, unguided event in nature.
Not at all. In the lab, it would depend upon state of the art lab
equipment, and the chemicals used. For example,
"Some man-made stones exist solely as lab created stones while other
man-made stones also have natural counterparts. Cubic zirconia and
crystal are examples of stones that are always man-made".
(http://pandoragroup.com/Products/Jewellery%20materials/Man-made%20stones)
And all cars are man-made.
How do you know? If evolution can created sophisticated machines like
the human body and mind, why not less complex machines like a car.
It wasn't created. It evolved. And will continue to do so.
Post by James
No evolutionist alive today can tell how life started from non-life.
In order for macroevolution to work, it had to start that way.
And no creationist can tell how life started is not by evolution.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
duke
2014-09-15 21:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Where else would life come from? Life is a self-sustaining biochemical
reaction. There's nothing magical about it, as theists appear to assume.
Yet you still cannot produce it in the lab. If you don't want to call
it a "miracle", then call it an unsolved "mystery". Whatever it is, so
far it is beyond human thinking.
Which is why we call it a miracle, your unsolved mystery.
Post by James
Post by Free Lunch
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
It's not a miracle because it is just normal chemical processes.
It is not that simple, since you cannot duplicate it in the lab.
James
www.jw.org
the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
August Rode
2014-09-07 15:26:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right.
Only in that elements aren't alive. He completely neglects the entire
basis of chemistry which is the study of the interactions of atoms and
molecules.

Life *is* biochemistry. That this is true is evidenced by the reasons
why we eat, drink and respire. All of these activities exist solely for
the purpose of delivering nutrients and other required chemical
compounds to our bodies to allow the life processes (biochemical
processes all) to continue.

If life wasn't a complex set of biochemical processes, then there would
be no need to sustain those biochemical processes and there would be no
reason to eat, drink or respire. In ¶'s world, there is no reason to do
any of these things as he doesn't think that life has anything to do
with physical materials. Without a steady supply of oxygen molecules,
our bodies die in very short order. Without a supply of water (whether
by itself or contained in anything we drink), our bodies die in the
course of a few days. Without nutrients, we die in the course of a few
weeks. Clearly, these things are necessary for the sustenance of life.
Post by James
How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
When the heart stops, the circulation of oxygen through the body stops.
Without oxygen, certain key biochemical processes stop with the result
that cells begin to die. When too many cells have died, the body cannot
be revived.
Post by James
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE.
But it has everything to do with the concept of emergent properties.
Oxygen as a gas is neither liquid (by definition) nor wet. Gaseous
hydrogen is also neither liquid nor wet. Yet, when these gases are
combined, the result is a liquid that is wet. The combination of
elements has produced a compound which has properties that neither of
the constituent elements has. That water has the properties it has has
everything to do with its chemical properties. That's the point.
Post by James
So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
The correct answer is that we don't know yet. That doesn't give us
permission to latch onto the first answer that presents itself and claim
that that answer is true. When we don't know something, we ought to say
that we don't know.
Steve O
2014-09-07 21:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by James
Post by raven1
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive.
Everybody knows that water is comprised of hydrogen and oxygen,
neither of which is a liquid, therefore, water isn't a liquid either.
When are you going to stop repeating your absurd composition fallacy?
But he is right. How do you explain LIFE coming from all non-life
material. Are you saying if you slap together all the complexities of
a human body, it will magically come to life? What about a dead person
who just died with his heart stopping? He is still made of the same
stuff, but WITHOUT life!
Your combination of two gasses to produce a liquid, although cleaver
sounding, has nothing to do with LIFE. So you need a better analogy if
you can come up with one.
So answer the question, how do you get life, from non-life? Is it a
miracle? No, we can't have that, can we. So then how?
Complexity.
k***@baawa.com
2014-09-07 16:56:37 UTC
Permalink
The provable premise... nothing alive is alive by reason of what all living things are made of...
Everybody knows all matter is comprised of Elements of the Periodic Table... none of which are
alive. Yet, there's an abundance of living things on earth... where then does life come from since
its not found on earth and its ridiculous to say life came from outer space. However, that life
came from outer space is one of the unprovable, untenable " facts " the Big Bangers hold dear.
It's always easier to resort to the mystical than it is to prove facts as far as the Big Bangers
and Evolutionists are concerned. They can not make sense out of the absolute sterility they
describe the condition of the early earth and universe. In their view, life comes from absolute
sterility whether a living thing came from outer space or crawled out of the ocean. You must, of
necessity, leave behind rational thought in order to be a disciple of the Big Bang idea and
Evolution.
You must prove life comes from non-life. This, they quickly by-pass... just check out their banter
for yourself. They ' assume ' life comes from non-life and preach it as fact. The gullible fall for
this trick every time.
So then, what makes living things alive since nothing any living thing is made of is alive by
reason of any combination of Elements of the Periodic Table ? The answer is, of course, quickly
shunned and the messenger slain by the disciples of the Big Bang ( a Catholic idea ) and
Evolutionists.
( Darwin was an incestuous man who married his own first cousin )
The only tenable answer is God, the Living God, gave and gives life to all things alive. The Big
Bangers know this full well as do the Evolutionists. Why ? Its very simple. God made Himself
evident to every rational being of His living creation. He says so Himself in Romans 1:18 and
following. With or without a Bible everyone is held responcible for their actions... and this is
exactly what the big Bangers and Evolutionists hate the most, and are afraid of the most.
They desperately want a Godless universe simply because the knowledge of God He put in everyone
points the finger of the Almighty right at them as guilty of blasphemy. They are irresponsible to
their own science so what esteem do you think they hold the Living God ?
Why not just rob, cheat, steal, lie, murder, loot, rape and pillage as mush as you possibly can at
all times since no God exists ? What keeps you from fulfilling the lusts of your human nature ?
The fear of God innate in you, of course.
I may get some flack for this but I'm giving this idiot a 9 on the
Troll Scale.

The only thing missing is non-believers eating babies and
capitalization's.

Warlord Steve
BAAWA
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