Post by m***@.not.After 35 years of Christianity I give up trying to shoehorn that into
reality. Whatever God is he certainly is not intimately involved in
this universe.
See bottom
Post by m***@.not.How did you find that out? It sounds like you skipped agnosticism and went
straight to strong atheism. I tried that myself for about six months and finally
realised it's a stupid position, so I became a weak agnostic. According to what
you wrote you aren't even a strong agnostic or weak atheist, but are a strong
atheist.
So for the last 4 - 5 months I've been on my own. I
hope to connect with other agnostics for support.
I encourage you to try being an agnostic, but the supposed agnostics and the
atheists in these ngs will encourage you to be a strong atheist which you
currently appear to be. I've added some groups to your thread in the hopes that
you will eventually get some worthwhile input, but don't count on it. Pretty
much all you get from the atheists and most supposed agnostics around here is
no. So if you close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and repeat: no, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no.... it will be about the same value as any reply you
will get from such people. You don't even have to ask them what they think,
because all they're capable of thinking is no, no, no, no, no.....
Oh and btw if you ever do get on the agnostic track and suggest considering
the possibility that there is a God associated with this planet to any of "them"
you will almost certainly experience them demanding that you provide "evidence"
of God's existence. But! They not only aren't really trying to get you to
provide evidence, but they will deny any and ALL evidence that you tell them
about, while...LOL....continuing to demand "evidence". They reject every bit of
evidence for God's existence that there has ever been or ever will be. Even if
all or some of the accounts of Jesus in the Bible are actually true "they" will
still deny them as being evidence. Even more pathetically amusing than all that
is the now proven FACT that though they demand "evidence" when what they really
mean is proof, not a one of them has any idea at all WHAT sort of proof they
think there should be, WHERE they think it should be, WHY they think it should
be available to humans, or WHEN they think it should be or should have been made
available if God really does exist. You may find as I do that though they are
shallow and pathetic people at "best", just describing the positions they're in
is often HILARIOUS!!! So have fun :-)
Yes, it appears that the biggest stumbling block for many is twosome:
First, they claim God created Satan as Satan, thus created evil.
That is not true since God cannot do evil. Jas 1:13,
"When someone is being tested, he shouldn't think that God is tempting
him to do wrong. Evil cannot tempt God and God does not tempt anyone
with evil." (Simple English)
Second, they wonder why if God is so powerful, why does He permit
suffering and death to keep going on? He certainly has the power to
stop it. Why don’t He?
Well, if He is willingly letting evil and suffering exist, He must
have a super good reason for not stopping it. And He does.
God permits those things to occur at this time because of an extremely
important issue raised back in Eden. God originally created man and
put him in a beautiful garden-like place that had all kinds of
delicious foods. (Ge 2:15,16) God also created man to live forever on
the earth, IF he continually obeyed. (Ge 2:17) Disobedience was the
only condition that would bring death and end his eternal existence on
this earth.
When God created the earth and man, all His other living intelligent
beings, the angels, saw what He did. They observed the situation that
occurred in Eden. A rebellious angel, Satan (cowardly hiding behind a
serpent), talked to Eve and told her that God had lied and that doing
things her way could prove beneficial to her; that Eve would do better
if she decided for herself what was right and wrong. (Ge 3:3,4)
Eve took the bate, fell for it and disobeyed, and Adam later joined
her. Right then and there they rejected God and His perfect guidance,
and instead went with their own.
If God would have destroyed the rebels right then, all the other
intelligent beings that God created would never know if Satan was
right. (also none of us would be here today since we are all direct
descendants of Adam and Eve) Thus throughout all eternity there would
be doubts if God's ways are really the best ways. And intelligent
creatures at times, no doubt would forever challenge God's ways. So
much for endless peace and harmony.
God, in His wisdom and in His mercy, permitted the challenge to His
sovereignty to continue, to prove that only His ways are correct. So,
God had to settle the issue. But such an issue would take time so
Satan could not claim that God didn't let enough time elapse to prove
Satan's case. Or if God stepped in before every 'natural disaster'
(see Job below) or evil human action, Satan could claim that God is
intervening and not allowing humans to take care of such things. So at
the present God is letting humans 'run the show'. That means that the
whole world is basically ran by Satan. Joh 12:31,
"Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world
be cast out;" (RSV)
The first human couple listened to that liar, and disobeyed God. As
God said would happen, it brought on death. But in order for a perfect
body to die without any outside help, it has to become imperfect. And
since Adam and Eve were mercifully permitted to have offspring, (as
said before, if He destroyed them right in the beginning, none of us
would be here today) we also inherited that imperfection.
Later, Satan again challenged God saying that humans would not serve
God if faced with adversity of any kind. (see Job 1:9-12; 2:4,5)
Satan has been proven to be the liar that he is. Mankind has
demonstrated over the centuries that he cannot govern himself with
complete success. Mankind is even 'destroying the earth'. (Re 11:18)
Man must follow God's guidance in order to succeed in all things. As a
prophet put it at Jer 10:23,
"I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man
to direct his steps." (NIV)
Also, certain ones of mankind have also proven Satan to be a liar,
since they have faithfully served God despite the adverse conditions
they were under.
Since the challenge to God's sovereignty is reaching its climax, soon
all the pain and suffering will cease. Never again will such things be
permitted to happen. God promises this at Re 21:3,4,
"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of
God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people,
and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe
every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or
crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."" (NIV)
James
www.jw.org